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  1. #161
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    A long time ago I thought about putting twin velineon motors in an emaxx. I was told not to because they would be timed different and the windings would be different, causing them to "fight" each other and ending up with having one blown or stripped gears of some sort. I think that's what he's talking about. But I may be wrong,
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  2. #162
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    Works great.
    The Annihilator....fastest XO-1 on planet Earth.

  3. #163
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    Hi TSOS
    What toe in/out are you having in the front?

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  4. #164
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    I have a very slight amount of inward toe in the front. But keep in mind, my set up is two wheel drive.
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  5. #165
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    What's the theory behind the inward toe? Just curious because I have a 2wd XO.

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  6. #166
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    All straight line 2wd race cars have inward toe. Keeps them from wandering. They generally don't turn in to a corner as well but that's not what I'm shooting for.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStenchOfSpeed View Post
    All straight line 2wd race cars have inward toe. Keeps them from wandering. They generally don't turn in to a corner as well but that's not what I'm shooting for.
    Interesting. I may try that on mine. I assume just a slight amount of inward toe will do the job?

    Jeremy
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  8. #168
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    Yeah, I don't use much at all. This is how all production cars are aligned. As far as I know anyways.
    The Annihilator....fastest XO-1 on planet Earth.

  9. #169
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    Gotcha. Thanks, stench.

    Jeremy
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  10. #170
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    Should high speed cars such as the XO1 have 4 wheel drive and a center diff or be 2 wheel drive?

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx Racer View Post
    Should high speed cars such as the XO1 have 4 wheel drive and a center diff or be 2 wheel drive?
    That's a matter of preference I guess. Most "speed" cars have foam tires which totally changes things. I never had any success with the XO on foam drive tires......so what I did is just use foam in the front. The stock tires will grow like crazy at speeds over 120 and lift the front of the car. Obviously this is to be avoided. Gyroscopic steering also adds big problems. Foam in the front fixes both of these issues. Unless you are trying to go REALLY fast, 4WD is probably better. Definitely easier to get up to speed.
    The Annihilator....fastest XO-1 on planet Earth.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx Racer View Post
    Should high speed cars such as the XO1 have 4 wheel drive and a center diff or be 2 wheel drive?
    well the bugatti veyron has 4 wheel drive and that thing go's 250 mph or something

  13. #173
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    I love the old which is better debate, AWD or 2WD.

    Once you start doing insanity mods like TSOS has done with his awesome XO-1, all the standard stuff goes out the window.

    Luuk you are right almost all the new super cars are AWD. AWD definitely helps put the power to the ground better. I was looking at the world record holding R/C's and they are mostly AWD. And in my opinion if your going to be doing any thing with you car other than doing straight line speed runs than AWD is the way to go.

    They don't make steel belted tires that will hold there shape? I know that a much bigger OD tire would lower the RPM the tires turn, helping them stay together better problem is finding larger diameter tires that are still low profile, and light weight.

    TSOS awesome work how much hp is that thing pushing?
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  14. #174
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    I think one of the issues with the XO is 4wd. Think about a 4wd off road vehicle. When jumping, a blip of the throttle will bring the nose up. With the XO, the same blip may have similar results even though it's on the ground. This becomes even more of a problem with crazy power systems. This is one reason I went 2wd.

    Jeremy
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  15. #175
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    never even thought of that reason, good point!
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  16. #176
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    A 4wd vehicle bill usually be better balanced. Your point about blipping the throttle in midair occurs just as much if not more on a RWD vehicle. Just look at a dirt bike which is obviously always rear wheel drive. Generally speaking a 4wd vechile will have additional weight over the front wheels which is ideal for a 50/50 weight balance.

  17. #177
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    I believe a lot of the "supercars" that use AWD actually have a very complicated system for altering the amount of power sent to front and rear wheels based on speed.

    In what I do for a living, 4wd will get you killed. Simple as that.

    I've been making some billet wheels to hopefully fix that problem once and for all. Should be done in a few days.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 05-20-2014 at 10:01 AM. Reason: merge
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  18. #178
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    would be interested to see this run at some point. in case you ever need an unbiased witness...but in actuality i just want to watch it howl by. looked at your youtube vids, i recognize your company as well. im in the greensboro area.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by neows6 View Post
    A 4wd vehicle bill usually be better balanced. Your point about blipping the throttle in midair occurs just as much if not more on a RWD vehicle. Just look at a dirt bike which is obviously always rear wheel drive. Generally speaking a 4wd vechile will have additional weight over the front wheels which is ideal for a 50/50 weight balance.
    I'm referring to rc vehicles. Blipping the throttle on a 2wd vehicle does not have near the same effect as with 4wd.

    Jeremy
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  20. #180
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    With the same wheels on the front and rear, the force that makes the car wanting to make a back flip when you blip the throttle is twice as big with a 4WD because it comes from kinetic energy from rotating mass. I wonder what the force is compared to the force on the rear wheels that comes from the motor.
    With a 4WD the rear shock springs should be compressed more when blipping the throttle, but I wonder if that difference will be noticeable.
    With a 2WD you have less contact surface which can be used to make the car accelerate. Not that the front wheels will help a lot, but there is a difference.
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  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseygw View Post
    would be interested to see this run at some point. in case you ever need an unbiased witness...but in actuality i just want to watch it howl by. looked at your youtube vids, i recognize your company as well. im in the greensboro area.
    Yeah, I'm down here in Denton. I will probably only make actual speed runs at race tracks from now on. I have found a couple of roads around here that are good enough to horse around on a little but nothing good enough to run all out on. Don't know of any do you?
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  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petertje60 View Post
    With the same wheels on the front and rear, the force that makes the car wanting to make a back flip when you blip the throttle is twice as big with a 4WD because it comes from kinetic energy from rotating mass. I wonder what the force is compared to the force on the rear wheels that comes from the motor.
    With a 4WD the rear shock springs should be compressed more when blipping the throttle, but I wonder if that difference will be noticeable.
    With a 2WD you have less contact surface which can be used to make the car accelerate. Not that the front wheels will help a lot, but there is a difference.
    I agree that it's possible a 4wd vehicle can accelerate faster but under certain conditions. If you have traction, I'm not sure one would beat out the other. But, at higher speeds when the front tends to want to lift, the 4wd may be a hindrance and cause the car to lift more. It's really hard to say. There are pros and cons to each setup.

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  23. #183
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  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStenchOfSpeed View Post


    WOW! Look nice!
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  25. #185
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    How much does each one weigh compared to the stock wheel and tire?

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  26. #186
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    Currently a lot heavier. I'm in the process of reducing their weight but that is not really too much of a concern at this point.
    The Annihilator....fastest XO-1 on planet Earth.

  27. #187
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    I would think it would be a concern. That's a lot more rotational mass. More stress on drivetrain and electronics.

    Jeremy
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  28. #188
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    But any given time you only 100% throttle whether it be 2wd or 4wd. With 4wd the power is split therefore the rear wheels in most cases has a 50% input on the rotational force. The act of roatating the vehicle about the rear wheel axis is then also halved. It is a classic 3rd law of motion. Every force has an equal and opposite reaction. When you apply throttle you spin the wheels in one direction and the chassis will try to spin in the opposite direction.
    Similar to what happens with a helicopters rotor and hence the need for a tail rotor to counteract the force.
    The same is happing at the front wheels again at 50% of total power.
    You would say why doesn't the force equate to the same? It does, except its not on the same axis. And therefore puts the center of rotation more towards the center if the vehicle.
    Last edited by neows6; 05-21-2014 at 02:56 PM.

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponie1992 View Post
    I would think it would be a concern. That's a lot more rotational mass. More stress on drivetrain and electronics.

    Jeremy
    I'm in the process of lightening them. I hope that with my new body style I will be able to reduce battery mass by about 2/3. If that is the case, the car will still be considerably lighter than it was in the past.
    The Annihilator....fastest XO-1 on planet Earth.

  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStenchOfSpeed View Post
    I'm in the process of lightening them. I hope that with my new body style I will be able to reduce battery mass by about 2/3. If that is the case, the car will still be considerably lighter than it was in the past.
    I do like the looks of those wheels though. Keep us updated.

    Jeremy

    Quote Originally Posted by neows6 View Post
    But any given time you only 100% throttle whether it be 2wd or 4wd. With 4wd the power is split therefore the rear wheels in most cases has a 50% input on the rotational force. The act of roatating the vehicle about the rear wheel axis is then also halved. It is a classic 3rd law of motion. Every force has an equal and opposite reaction. When you apply throttle you spin the wheels in one direction and the chassis will try to spin in the opposite direction.
    Similar to what happens with a helicopters rotor and hence the need for a tail rotor to counteract the force.
    The same is happing at the front wheels again at 50% of total power.
    You would say why doesn't the force equate to the same? It does, except its not on the same axis. And therefore puts the center of rotation more towards the center if the vehicle.
    In theory, you would think 50/50 front/rear. But, you will have more drivetrain loss going to the front. Believe it or not, the center driveshaft will absorb some of what is applied to the front.

    Jeremy
    Last edited by cooleocool; 05-22-2014 at 09:31 AM. Reason: merge
    Jeremy

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by neows6 View Post
    But any given time you only 100% throttle whether it be 2wd or 4wd. With 4wd the power is split therefore the rear wheels in most cases has a 50% input on the rotational force. The act of roatating the vehicle about the rear wheel axis is then also halved. It is a classic 3rd law of motion. Every force has an equal and opposite reaction. When you apply throttle you spin the wheels in one direction and the chassis will try to spin in the opposite direction.
    Similar to what happens with a helicopters rotor and hence the need for a tail rotor to counteract the force.
    The same is happing at the front wheels again at 50% of total power.
    You would say why doesn't the force equate to the same? It does, except its not on the same axis. And therefore puts the center of rotation more towards the center if the vehicle.
    Your theory would be correct if the wheels turned in opposite directions. Both front and rear wheels put a force on the chassis which makes it want to do a backflip. Helis with two large rotors and no tail rotor, have the rotors turn in opposite directions for that reason.
    When the wheels turn with a constant velocity, there will happen nothing. There is only a force when the speed of the wheels increases (backflip direction) or decreases (front flip direction).
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  32. #192
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    I understand your thought on rotation. But the front wheels with throttle would create a downward force on the center of the chassis. As the rear wheels create an upward force on the center of the chassis not because they are spinning in two different directions but because they are both turning the same direction. Or the rear wheels create a downward force behind the wheels and the front wheels create a upward force ahead of the wheels.

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by neows6 View Post
    I understand your thought on rotation. But the front wheels with throttle would create a downward force on the center of the chassis. As the rear wheels create an upward force on the center of the chassis not because they are spinning in two different directions but because they are both turning the same direction. Or the rear wheels create a downward force behind the wheels and the front wheels create a upward force ahead of the wheels.
    If you take the torque forces on both wheels and look at the effect on the middle between the wheel axles, they will be evened out. That is why the center stays in place.
    But since the forces are torque forces, you will also need to add components which work in the other direction on the same distance to the other side of the wheel axles. Those forces make the car turn. I hope the picture below explains what I mean.

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  34. #194
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    So the forces in the middle of the car cancel each other out and the front still wants to lift.

    Jeremy
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  35. #195
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    Yall are giving me a headache.
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  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponie1992 View Post
    So the forces in the middle of the car cancel each other out and the front still wants to lift.

    Jeremy
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStenchOfSpeed View Post
    Yall are giving me a headache.
    Sorry! [/HIJACK]
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  37. #197
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    Sorry Peter we are saying the same thing. That half the twisting force is canceled out at the centerline. What remains is the 50%. 25% ahead of the front wheels and 25% from the force behind the rear wheels.
    My only implication was to counter a previous post stating that awd was more likely to lift the front wheelsboff the ground vs. a rwd vehicle.
    Which is not true. Awd just moves the twisting force closer to the cg therefore it appears more controllable in midair.

    By the we way awesome project StenchofSpeed
    Last edited by cooleocool; 05-23-2014 at 09:28 AM. Reason: merge

  38. #198
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    Yes...PLEASE let's get back on topic with the Annihilator!

  39. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by neows6 View Post
    Sorry Peter we are saying the same thing.
    Agreed!

    I don't think it's that much off topic after all. But if the TS thinks it is, it is.

    Outstanding work on the project anyhow. Rare combination of a lot of creativity and very nice implementation of new ideas.
    Nobody is born with experience

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStenchOfSpeed View Post


    Wow man your tires look very nice and im sure the can handle very high speeds but why you dont drill a few holes in the rim i think your wheels are a lot less heavy then.

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