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  1. #1
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    HobbyWing 180 amp upgrade for my Castle Spartan ?

    Hi there. I have a question maybe some of you could answer for me. I'm getting ready to upgrade my new Spartan for 6s and I was thinking about the HobbyWing 180 amp ESC but have read a couple of threads here and elsewhere that some people have done this and lost speed for some reason. Think I read here that one guy ran 58 mph with stock setup and switched to HW 180 and couldn't get but 52mph for some reason. He seemed to try what people asked him to try but couldn't get his speed back.
    I guess my question is ( for those of you running the stock Spartan Castle motor with the HW 180 ESC ) is did you lose any speed when you switched ESC's ? I would hate to spend $130 to slow my boat down.
    Also, what would be the correct timing for the stock motor running the 180amp ESC ?
    Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Im unsure about that.... But just fried my esc on 6s =( I was looking into a seaking 180 as you mentioned. So I am interested to hear the answer... Maybe just huck the castle system completely and go with a leopard or something (which imo is going backwards in the quality). But im realizing alot of people with spartans dont have the stock system

  3. #3
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    Castle doesn't make junk products. I want to prop up and the Castle ESC that comes with the Spartan is only 80 amps from what I have read. The motor is a very good motor that makes a lot of power and will probably stay reliable if you feed it what it wants but I sure don't want to slow down. I'm very curious what's causing the slowdown for some. Surely somebody in here has ran the stock motor with both ESC's on 6s. Hopefully they will chime in. I'm ready to prop up and get this thing to the water...

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    Wow. Only 80 amps!!! Thats truley amazing that it can handle 6s at all. No wonder why I fried out mine.

    Please if ANYBODY has used both esc's please any input will help. I dont want to go slower either lol

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    Just read your thread. Maybe the new ones have 120 AMP like Hog is saying but I read earlier today in this forum somewhere that they were only 80 amps. Perhaps they meant the older model none Castle version. Who knows. I've also read specs from places that sell them that say these Castle motors are 1420 to 1800 KV ( whatever that means) and then I've read they are 1600 KV. Truth is I don't think anybody knows what they are. If the Vendors cant get it straight who can ? I do know I've seen them make a lot of power, especially on Cat hulls but I'm worried about propping up with this ESC and I don't want to purchase something that will slow the boat down either. 30+ views and nobody has ran the stock motor with both ESC's?
    Sometimes I feel like I read just enough to confuse myself...lol

  6. #6
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    When I Replied in another thread about the AMP rating on the castle ESC, I noted I was going from memory, and would need to check the OM to ensure the info was correct.

    Well, I have a memory like a steel sieve.

    The stock ESC, both old and new version, are rated:
    4.8 - 25.7 volts (6-18 cells NIMH, or, 2S-6S Lipo)
    80 AMP continuous
    300 amp peak
    BEC 6.0 VDC

    This information is on page 16 of the OM.

    When I first modded my Spartan I was running a Tacon 3674 1700kv motor, Seaking 180 ESC, and Prather 215 prop.
    This was when the first version was still current, and had a 1600kv motor.

    I was running an eagle tree data logger and GPS from time to time to monitor function and performance.

    On this setup, the data logger would graph avg continuous AMP draw between 60-80 amps with spikes easily over ranging the graph at 180 amps plus.

    hog

  7. #7
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    Yup, so I need to definitely upgrade the ESC then...No comment on the HW 180 slowing the stock motor down Hog ? I've read that on this forum and another one. I want to pull the trigger and buy but I don't want a slower than stock boat...As a life long Nitro guy, this electric stuff is starting to give me a headache...
    Last edited by Jaguar2; 09-03-2013 at 09:43 PM.

  8. #8
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    I never ran stock electrics.
    When the version 1 Spartan first hit the market the ESC's were failing fairly regularly, so I switched electrics before they hit the water for the first time.
    Running with the SK180 is all I'm familiar with for the Spartan so nothing to compare to.

    When I have checked speed, both our Spartans run consistently in the 46-50 mph range for top end, running 6S and close to OEM spec on the props.

    hog

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hog View Post
    I never ran stock electrics.
    When the version 1 Spartan first hit the market the ESC's were failing fairly regularly, so I switched electrics before they hit the water for the first time.
    Running with the SK180 is all I'm familiar with for the Spartan so nothing to compare to.

    When I have checked speed, both our Spartans run consistently in the 46-50 mph range for top end, running 6S and close to OEM spec on the props.

    hog
    So your running the version 1 hull? The people running this system with the version 2 hull should expect more top end speed?

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    I wouldn't think so.

    I'm running one version 1 hull, and one new style hull.

    There is not enough difference between the hulls that would lead me to expect any significant increase or decrease in speed between the two.

    hog

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    I have made templates of the old hull and the new hull when I used to run the old hull and my son had the new hull and they are identical except for the nose at the bow. The wetted surface or the part that runs in the water are the same on the two versions of the hull. I run the seaking 180 esc on both boats and they will not slow the boat running the stock motor. The esc only supplies the current needed by any given motor . It will not speed up the boat or slow it down but it will help because it can handle a higher current load so you do not burn up the stock esc that happens so often.

  12. #12
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    I have run my Spartan on 2 6s 8400mah in series, on stock castle motor and esc, running a stock pitch metal prop and just recently blew the motor out both ends of the can, as well as the esc up in smoke, boat did run like a bat outta h... But now looking to upgrade the esc, and possibly motor I hit just over 65mph with that setup before it went flying, so any suggestions I want to see how far I can take the boat. Hope to hit somewhere around 75-80

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zlgreen21 View Post
    I have run my Spartan on 2 6s 8400mah in series, on stock castle motor and esc, running a stock pitch metal prop and just recently blew the motor out both ends of the can, as well as the esc up in smoke, boat did run like a bat outta h... But now looking to upgrade the esc, and possibly motor I hit just over 65mph with that setup before it went flying, so any suggestions I want to see how far I can take the boat. Hope to hit somewhere around 75-80
    So, you ran a stock spartan on 12s?

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    Sorry 6s total (2) 3s 8400

    I wish that would be insane but prob wouldn't last long

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    Did you run the stock castle VXL6 motor on 6s with the stock esc before you went to the 180? There is somebody in this forum or OSE forum that did and when he switched to the Seaking he went from 56 mph to 52 mph with the ESC programmed correctly. I understand it isn't supposed to work that way but for this guy who ran with both ESC's it did work that way...Thanks...


    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    I have made templates of the old hull and the new hull when I used to run the old hull and my son had the new hull and they are identical except for the nose at the bow. The wetted surface or the part that runs in the water are the same on the two versions of the hull. I run the seaking 180 esc on both boats and they will not slow the boat running the stock motor. The esc only supplies the current needed by any given motor . It will not speed up the boat or slow it down but it will help because it can handle a higher current load so you do not burn up the stock esc that happens so often.

  16. #16
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    One other question, can the stock Spartan castle ESC be programed with the Castle Link ?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar2 View Post
    One other question, can the stock Spartan castle ESC be programed with the Castle Link ?
    NOPE, tried to and nothing
    MMM/2650, E-maxx Body=FUN !
    3 Slash 4x4
    Pede 4x4

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar2 View Post
    Did you run the stock castle VXL6 motor on 6s with the stock esc before you went to the 180? There is somebody in this forum or OSE forum that did and when he switched to the Seaking he went from 56 mph to 52 mph with the ESC programmed correctly. I understand it isn't supposed to work that way but for this guy who ran with both ESC's it did work that way...Thanks...
    As SJS has pointed out, there is really very little the ESC itself could do to impede the speed.
    There are only a couple things I could think of;
    1. weight and where the weight is mounted in the hull.
    2. if manufactured with very poor quality components, excessive resistance through the ESC.

    My experience with the SK180 is that they are overall good quality.
    I can't speak to whether or not there is any significant weight differential between the SK and Castle ESC, and placement of the ESC in the tray is pretty limited, so I can't see weight distribution being a factor.

    I would suggest it would be necessary to confirm "correct programming" of the ESC. The SK has more programmable settings than the stock castle ESC. I'm thinking specifically the timing advance setting. I have never been able to find specs on the stock Castle motor, but it is important to know if it is a Delta (D) wind motor or a Wye (Y) wind motor when choosing a timing advance. An incorrect timing setting can affect the performance of the motor.

    One other possible factor that could result in reduced performance would be poor soldering on connections.

    Without knowing the individual, or anything about the skill/experience level they have, it is very difficult to diagnose their reported results.

    It could be as simple as they knocked the strut out of alignment a bit while working on the boat, and didn't notice?? Or even a slightly different battery placement??

    Unless the OP chimes in to confirm that every other parameter remained exactly the same, it just isn't possible for us to comment with confidence on the OP's remarks.

    Sorry, I know that isn't very helpful.

    Based on my experience with the SK180 ESC, I do not hesitate to recommend it as a suitable alternate.

    hog
    Last edited by hog; 09-08-2013 at 10:34 PM.

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    That was indeed confirmed Hog. All the suggestions people made to him were confirmed. The weight wouldn't have been a factor. Although weight is key in any surface drive boat , that small amount of weight with an electric motor shouldn't have scrubbed 4 MPH. Nitro maybe, but not electric. Sense the Castle Link doesn't work with the Spartan ESC I have decided to give the 180 Seaking a go anyway. Now for a Seaking 180 question.

    1. One website has the V3 with added capacitor pack. Then I found one cheaper at another website with the added capacitor pack but it sais its a V2 and beside the ad it sais in big bold red letters( There is no such thing as V3). Seems I read there were some problems with V2 but I may be mistaken as I have been doing a TON of reading and cant remember everything. Are they correct when they say there is no such thing as V3 ? Trying to figure which one to buy. V2 or V3 ? Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by hog View Post
    As SJS has pointed out, there is really very little the ESC itself could do to impede the speed.
    There are only a couple things I could think of;
    1. weight and where the weight is mounted in the hull.
    2. if manufactured with very poor quality components, excessive resistance through the ESC.

    My experience with the SK180 is that they are overall good quality.
    I can't speak to whether or not there is any significant weight differential between the SK and Castle ESC, and placement of the ESC in the tray is pretty limited, so I can't see weight distribution being a factor.

    I would suggest it would be necessary to confirm "correct programming" of the ESC. The SK has more programmable settings than the stock castle ESC. I'm thinking specifically the timing advance setting. I have never been able to find specs on the stock Castle motor, but it is important to know if it is a Delta (D) wind motor or a Wye (Y) wind motor when choosing a timing advance. An incorrect timing setting can affect the performance of the motor.

    One other possible factor that could result in reduced performance would be poor soldering on connections.

    Without knowing the individual, or anything about the skill/experience level they have, it is very difficult to diagnose their reported results.

    It could be as simple as they knocked the strut out of alignment a bit while working on the boat, and didn't notice?? Or even a slightly different battery placement??

    Unless the OP chimes in to confirm that every other parameter remained exactly the same, it just isn't possible for us to comment with confidence on the OP's remarks.

    Sorry, I know that isn't very helpful.

    Based on my experience with the SK180 ESC, I do not hesitate to recommend it as a suitable alternate.

    hog

  20. #20
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    To be honest I didn't know there was a version 1 or 2 or 3.

    It has been over a year since I last purchased one. The last couple I purchased have the additional cap bank, but they are not labelled with a version number. I just assumed the extra cap bank was an update, rather than a "new version"

    Any change to the ESC, either physical, or software, could be considered a new version. 1.1, 1.2, 2.0, 3.0 etc.

    Unfortunately I can't confirm for you the official "latest version".

    One other note, the ESC is water resistant, not water proof. Most of us spray the ESC with a waterproofer like liquid tape, plasti dip, etc.

    hog

  21. #21
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    i have been running my spartan on multiple single 6s pack for hours and never had a heat issue. im fully stock just bought it couple days ago but every time i drive its for about 5-7 hours(of course alternating battery packs)

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    Well, from what I have read you are lucky. I've seen many posts in regards to the stock electronics on 6s not holding up well at all... Have you propped it up yet ? Like a X642 ?


    Quote Originally Posted by iknow2 View Post
    i have been running my spartan on multiple single 6s pack for hours and never had a heat issue. im fully stock just bought it couple days ago but every time i drive its for about 5-7 hours(of course alternating battery packs)

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    Can the stock ESC be programmed with any radio or does it have to be a Traxxas radio to program it ?

  24. #24
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    I'm the wrong guy to answer, I have no hands on with the stock electrics.

    Being a 2.4GHz radio system, I'm assuming you should be able to bind the receiver to most 2.4GHz transmitters.

    Any transmitter that can bind to receiver should be capable of programming the ESC.

    I'm sure someone has done it, or tried it, and will confirm.

    hog

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    yea just got done running from 6-8 couldnt feel a any heat from anything and i running all stock

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    Thumbs up

    I went ahead and ordered the SeaKing 180 V3 and some Dinogy 3s 6000 65c to run in series. Removing the Teflon liner and I am bumping up to a 3/16 flex cable as well. Offset rudder etc. Will be running a X642 and X645 trying to hit 70 mph.
    I may as well let the cat out of the bag on my little project. I busted up my Spartan pretty good and saw this video and it motivated me Picked up a MG and will be running the Spartan Castle motor in it. Looking to beat 65.3 but I was reluctant to run the ESC on 6s after all my research.
    If I feel the 180 is holding me back for some reason ( which theoretically it shouldn't) I will go ahead and use the stock esc in my quest.
    iknow2, keep us posted on your setup and how it does when you start moving to larger props. This guys setup seems to be doing ok in the video with a extra cap bank but I could not verify with him if it was still alive or not... btw, I'm from the Houston/ Clear Lake area as well. Where do you boat at? I currently have 11 Nitro boats so if you ever want to meet up and run them together lmk. We have several ponds here locally that are big and are perfect for RC. We have a race course set up on one back behind a post office on Spencer Hwy . Nice and big and plenty of room to let them eat ! Thanks for the help guy's.

    If you don't have time for the whole video start at 3 minutes in for the good stuff and wait for the last pass...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznQddEk5_k
    Last edited by Jaguar2; 09-10-2013 at 07:22 AM.

  27. #27
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    Hope you have great success with your MG project.

    That boat is really moving in the video, I don't question it is doing 60+mph, but do find it interesting he never zooms in on the GPS to confirm the reading.

    I run a Genesis Cat with SK180, Leopard 4082 1600KV, X645 prop and my top end isn't as fast as that MG appears to be in the video, but it will launch itself out of the water and flip over backwards if I punch it too hard out of the hole. I've also had some impressive blow overs with it as well.

    Ah yes Fast Electric, gotta love it.

    hog

  28. #28
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    Looks every bit of 65 to me. That thing is streaking . lol Fastest one on YTube and I have watched many many MG vids. He has a couple of other vids of his special edition Spartan and another boat, I forget what it is. In one of those vids he shows the GPS but not on the MG. It is very small. That said I have no doubt it is doing 65. If I did, I wouldn't be going through all this trouble to replicate it.
    I will keep you posted as things progress. Still have a ways to go. Going to conservatively do some blue and black CF inlay to sturdy the little 29" boat up some and reinforce the battery trays then start installing all the new parts that are on the way. 5.5 bullets, 10g wire, metal cooling jacket, offset breakaway rudder , better strut bushing, new collet for 3/16's cable, splitter with two water dumps, strut mods to get rid of that nasty hop they have. etc etc etc...you know the drill.
    Is there no way to upload files from your computer on this site ? Thanks

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar2 View Post
    Looks every bit of 65 to me. That thing is streaking . lol Fastest one on YTube and I have watched many many MG vids. He has a couple of other vids of his special edition Spartan and another boat, I forget what it is. In one of those vids he shows the GPS but not on the MG. It is very small. That said I have no doubt it is doing 65. If I did, I wouldn't be going through all this trouble to replicate it.
    I will keep you posted as things progress. Still have a ways to go. Going to conservatively do some blue and black CF inlay to sturdy the little 29" boat up some and reinforce the battery trays then start installing all the new parts that are on the way. 5.5 bullets, 10g wire, metal cooling jacket, offset breakaway rudder , better strut bushing, new collet for 3/16's cable, splitter with two water dumps, strut mods to get rid of that nasty hop they have. etc etc etc...you know the drill.
    Is there no way to upload files from your computer on this site ? Thanks

    So did it make your spartan slower?

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    Haven't ran it yet. I no longer have a Spartan , just the electronics. I did purchase the SK 180 but due to weight and fit I have decided to try the Traxxas Castle ESC first with some 5.5 bullets and 10 gauge wire along with added caps and see how it does . Dinogy 3s 6000 65c in series for 6s....Miss Geico 29

    Quote Originally Posted by Socalirevo View Post
    So did it make your spartan slower?

  31. #31
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    You want to sell the sk180? Ill pm you

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    Yep..it states right in my owners manual that the stock Castle ESC is 80 amps...

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    Here's a quick and inexpensive way to get the 3/8" - 1/2" space required to mount the hobbywing 180 above the radio tray side rails... If you can get your hands on a blown stock ESC you can take a dremel tool or jigsaw and cut it in half at the factory joint and then use filler to smooth out the top and PRESTO you have a nice factory stand that snaps back into the factory radio tray to mount your new 180 ESC to with velcro or double-sided tape without having to get to technical ..below is an example of what you will end up with:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

  34. #34
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    Here is what you end up with...and then a side by side with stock esc


    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

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    That's a good idea for those that have a non functioning stock ESC. I like the idea of retaining the stock mounting tabs.
    hog

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    found this on a different website...

    That says -Fast clock cycle MCU combined with efficient code means 100,000rpm cpu cycle* Well I asked one of my electrical engineers at work what that means exactly and the way he explained it: Every time a magnetic pole passes a set of windings inside the motor the esc has to reverse its electrical polarity in order to keep repelling that magnet. My castle out runner has at least 12 different magnets in it, meaning that the esc must go through 12 cpu cycles just to make one revolution of the motor. Assuming 12 magnets this would limit my top rpm to 8330 rpm, way too slow for a boat...

    The moral of the story... The seaking 180 while an awesome esc... Is not well suited for use with most outrunners, and should really be used with 2 or 4 pole inrunners, even a 4 pole motor will top out at 25000 rpm with this esc.

    Isnt the stock castle motor a 4 pole? That would make sense that this would make it slower than the stock esc..


    Edited for language abuse. If you see a starred out word in your post, you must edit it out to avoid earning warning points; this also applies if a company/product name has been blocked by the filter.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 11-10-2013 at 10:03 PM.

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