Managed to get out yesterday with the rally. Have it setup with 19/54 gearing and I went back to the stock tires/wheels. I left the body 1 hole higher on the posts though and I installed some straight rate springs in the rear from a stampede as per the Jangs suggestion.
I really like the stock tires SO much better than the buggy tires/wheels I was running before. They get better grip on all surfaces, the car handles way better, drifts better, turns better... everything is better. This car really benefits from the larger outer sidewall on the SCT style tires. I hope traxxas or proline releases different options in this size. Or at the very least, traxxas gets the tires in stock as this is all ill want to run.
I took the car out to a large sand spot at our local fair grounds. It was groomed smooth after the last time it was used so it only had a few minor bumps in it. If I go back I may take some cones and setup a course, possible even add a few minor jumps.
Before i went I attempted to install some roost deflectors behind the front wheels. I think the concept is sound, but the deflectors are not tall enough. Im going to keep working with the design to see if I can make it more effective. One thing is for sure, even with the deflectors, this chassis sure does collect dirt and sand. Luckily, it only took a few minutes with a compressor to clean it up again.
And a short video. Please forgive both the crappy driving and filming. I was holding my Iphone with one hand and driving the car with my other hand (yes, one had driving).
Last edited by pavmentsurfer; 11-15-2012 at 09:37 AM.
Wow, that is some serious sand!!!
What was the air temperature when you made the video?
That is why I am still in doubt about getting a Rally. I just hate the fact that all the dirt which goes up in the air with a car like a Pede or a Rustler, but gets caught underneath the body with a Rally or a Slash.
Anyhow... Nice rig you got there, Pav.
Nobody is born with experience
I'm going to contact tbone to see if they would have any interest in making a set of inner fenders for. Rally/slash. I think they would sell amazing.
Got out again today with my version 2 fenders/deflectors. I added a 2nd section and it seems to have been fairly effective. Looks ridiculous... but works, especially in the sand.
These pics were taken after 2 times the amount of running I had done in the last set of pics at exactly the same spot.
I also contacted novak about my short run time issue and why, despite my high gearing and the high KV of the motor, I wasnt experiencing any heat. I was told that A: I should increase the timing in the ESC... not the timing of the motor, but the timing CURVE of the ESC. The Novak ESC starts the motor out at 0 timing then ramps it up in an exponential curve until you hit your maximum selected timing at full throttle. I turned the timing up to level 3 (not sure what degree that is, ill check later on) and was told I should lower my gearing as the increase in RPM at full throttle would cause excess heat. Speeds went up at full throttle, heat in the motor went up only a tiny bit. Heat in the ESC went up a bit more than expected so I re-added the fan and that kept the ESC nice and cool. Im pretty sure I could increase timing even further.
In terms of battery life, im getting about 12 minutes from an SPC 5400mah 50C 2S pack. In my VXL stampede I get at least 30 minutes from the same pack. In my last sensored setup, an MMP/Trinity 540 I was getting nearly 30 minutes as well. The guy at novak told me their systems, in particular their 550 systems are real amp hogs and 12 minutes is a realistic expectation for a 5400mah 2S pack. Also, I was told the LVC is set at 3.3 VPC... but its kicking in early as the amp load is tripping it early. I timed my last run, mostly full throttle running, and I got 5 minutes before the LVC kicked in the first time. At that point I eased up on my running and got another 8 minutes out of the pack before the LVC hit full shut off. This is unacceptable and, IMO, a pretty major drawback to this system. I love the power, I love the smoothness... but if Im only getting 12 minute run times and more than half of it has to be at easy throttle... thats terrible. Im seriously considering going to an MMP/3800 combo instead. I know that setup will get decent run times and have lots of power. The guy at novak told me their motors are 2 pole where as the castle motor are 4 (as we all know) and that the 2 pole motor is less efficient. But, the VXL motor is 2 pole as well... and it gets decent run times. So that cant be it.
Just thought this was an interesting update. Sure, I could always run my 8200mah packs but I shouldnt have to in this car.
Last edited by pavmentsurfer; 11-15-2012 at 07:38 PM.
If there was one available, would you use an Outerwears shroud instead?
Alt-248 on the number pad = °
Im going to get an outerwears shroud for this thing for sure. Theres a thread on the forum of someone who used the slash 4X4 shroud and it fit fine. Im going to pick one up. It really is the solution to the problem.
Just bought the outerwear's cover. Could only get blue but it should match the rest of the car anyway. Hopefully this is the answer the "chassis full of dirt" problem.
Let us know how it fits. This thing needs it badly lol.
R4lly GT8 | Backsl4sh | Sl4sh MT | Sl4sh | P4de
Very cool vids dude have seen them both and they rock for one hand driving check out the v2 tenshock motors for your rally dude...peace
Famous last words...watch this!!!!
Well from my talking with Novak I knew much of the performance and run time endurance was going to come from proper timing of the ESC/motor but as many times as I considered this system I never noticed these to be only 2-pole motors? That is why I shared that info with you on timing set ups. I hope it gets better for you so I will be anxious for next update!
I know you are mentioning run times of much more length than 12 minutes but you are comparing to motors that are 3800kv and under. The high demand on amps would explain the shorter runtimes. I don't believe sensored motors can be as efficient as sensorless but have some advantages in what you experienced in smoothness and adjustable timing curves that may be beneficial to racing applicatin where as runtime is not?
It might just be tough to beat what the Velineon, Castles give in both performance and runtimes for us! I have never run a 2400kv Castle yet but have one coming, the HPI Vektor 4000kv seems like a great take off bargain on Ebay. Soooo many choices LOL. I got plenty of runtime on my 2WD Slash but would expect less on my 4WD platform.
I'll sooner or later let you know what happens with a Tekin 6.5t 3300kv 4-pole sensored I picked up that I will run off my MMP ESC. I might like it, and I might not, just having fun tinkering and will settle in on a package or two to use, the Rally is awesome, well once I get my dang #7430 bulkhead replacement in it LOL
One other note, if that Novak is a 'hog' and you are running a 50c discharge pack it will take that pack down faster than a 25c if I am correct?
Last edited by kwitty; 11-16-2012 at 02:28 PM.
Couldnt help myself. Towers EZpay setup is just too "EZ". I just ordered a set of HPI Maxxis Belted Trepadors in D compound. Apparently they are within 3mm of the stock tire height and ive run them before on pavement. They perform very similar to the stock rally tires but last a long long time. My stock tires are nearly gone after today so ill be needed something else very soon.
I also picked up a brand new Castle MMP/3800 combo... I do like the smoothness of the of Novak system but the run times are just not good enough. I ran today on a clean parking lot and the LVC kicked in after 9 minutes. I got 6 minutes of easy throttle after that until the LVC shut down entirely. So, 15minutes... thats the best ive got. I know you guys running castle systems are getting 25-35minutes easy out of the same packs. And im sure the 3800 can be geared to run cool on 2S and still be plenty fast.
Im going to mount the trepadors on some Proline Split 6's in black. Should look nice. Then, when the stock tires are toast (pretty soon). Im going to bake the tires off, dye the rims black and mount up some Duratrax Bandito's... which are also supposed to be very close to stock tire height and are a decent looking onroad tread pattern.
Just thought a little update would be useful to some. For what its worth, I havent upgraded ONE thing on the car and havent broken anything at all. Im seriously resisting the urge to upgrade at all... I just want to see how long this thing will last completely stock.
Today I ran 4 Packs through the rally. All on dry pavement with dusty patches. Most of the driving was drift style (like a real rally car). After the first 2 packs I realized, if I want my stock body to last until traxxas releases clear versions... im going to have to run the focus body I painted in the mean time. As I get more used to the car I get more daring and start taking greater chances trying drift around obstacles or between things. Often it doesnt end well. So, I slapped on the funny looking focus body and ran the last 2 packs.
The focus body looks extra funny with the stock white tires and wheels. The wheel/tire combo is simply too small for that body. Its very out of scale IMO. It also needs a wing to finish the back end... it looks too bulbous and round at the back. Other than that, its a good thing I decided to run it as I had a few pretty major mishaps. Now, my shiny new focus body is not new anymore.
Ive run approximately 12-16 packs through the car now... I havent kept track but I think im pretty close with that. Most of it has been on pavement. After this much running my rear tires are essentially done. Maybe one more pack and they will be bald. The fronts have about %50 remaining so I rotated them. I should be able to get 4-6 more packs TOPS from both sets until im down to nothing if I keep running on pavement, and I plan to so hopefully tower doesnt take too long to ship the Trepadors I ordered.
Im not unhappy with the life span of these tires. Its been cold here so im sure if it were warm they would have worn faster. Im also dealing with short run times. I think if i was running a VXL system or other standard brushless setup that gives normal run times I would have got half the number of packs through before the tires were toast.
I hope the trepadors work as there really arent any other options that are similar in style and appearance to stock that are close in size as well.
Ya I've seen a guy post up saying he only got like 8 packs through the tires.
I would just use those for street running and buy another set for sand at your town fairgrounds.
Idk how grippy those tires are but my stock bfg tires are slicks on my 2wd. I still run them on everything but they need replacement.. There are now holes in the tire.
Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL
I've always had a hard time keeping the wheel spin on the lesser side lol, now we have a car for the purpose! Seems alot of you guys are burning um up. Those hpi tires should slide nice, they did for me! I also used them on carpet, that's ne of my best sets for our track!
I'm not a hatchet man! I'm a maggot!
I would really like a set of dedicated drift tires and a couple of compounds in them, a hard one for serious slide and finesse the throttle drift and some speed drift where you won't hook the car over in a power slide.
For fun I may try out some Anacondas on 2.8's. Mounted I have them at 105mm, not too far off the 102mm of the stock Rally treads which now have dwindled down to about 100mm.
I think good tire choices are going to bring out the most fun and driving style on pavement with this chassis so I hope the tire makers get going on this soon!
Pave, what do you think about a shroud like they put around a non-retracting airplane wheel that is ultra lightweight that attaches to the suspension and houses the tire to keep the debris transfer reduced. Could easily attach and be lightweight lexan, painted up too of course?
Pave, how is the center bearing and support working out? I am guessing you are giving it attention after every run. Also, did you add the alum spacer? Original bearing?
Ya can't polish fertilizer...
Honestly man, I haven't taken the car apart at all since I installed the power system. The bearing appears to be fine. I'm you g to take it apart when my new castle system comes in. I did install the aluminum adapter. Haven't had a problem with anything on this car at all. It's been totally perfect so far.
I've run my car for about 8 hours or 10-12 packs worth. I have the upgraded Revo Slipper with aluminum shoes & traxxas bearing adapter and everything looks good there so far.
I didnt... I bought it 2 days before the sale hit. After my tower discount I didnt pay ALOT more than the sale price would have been after shipping. But it was definitely more... which I wasnt pleased about.
Just bought a new slash platinum 4x4 to scavenge all the upgrade parts from. After my tower discount and %5 cash back from PayPal it only cost $380 shipped.
Sell the vxl system for $120 and a few of the other bits, then sell the comets roller with all the stock parts I take off my rally and I should almost break even.
My MMP/3800 system and Maxxis Trepadors FINALLY came in today.... 17 days from tower. Not the best shipping time. Ive got the motor in... it came with a 5mm shaft. i was pleased to see that. Going to solder up the ESC tonight and get it mounted. Tires are on the rims, not yet glued.
They are VERY similar in overall diameter to the stock tires (at least stock tires WITH tread... which mine do not have). But they are wider and therefore DO contact the body quite a bit more. I had to trim my focus body about 3mm all the way around the openings. Not a big deal and on that body it doesnt look funny at all. (the body looks funny enough as it is). BUT, I wont be trimming up my stock body. Ill wait to get some new rally tires or a set of sweep racing GT tires. The Trepadors will do to hold me over and will likely make a decent snow tire for winter.
Pics will be coming later tonight.
OK, to keep this thread going a bit despite the forum being mostly dead the past few weeks.
Here are some pics of the SCT/3800 installed and my outerwears cover on. As well, the Maxxis tires on a set of proline rims.
I think everything looks quite clean in there. There certainly is alot of room. Im sure I could put the RX box back in its original location and move the ESC back a bit. And I might still do that. But for now, this setup is fine.
Im not really impressed with the fit of the outerwears cover. I can see that it will very likely do its job. But the manufacturer hasnt taken into account the side nerf bars so the cover just sortof lays over them... give it a really sloppy look IMO. A simple slit in the side of the cover so the nerf bar rail could slide into the cover would have been a very simple and effective fix.
The Maxxis tires are darn close to the stockers (if the stockers had tread)... in both width and height... but for some reason they just dont fit the same. I think it might be the outer shoulder of hte tire is VERY square... and thats the part that causes the most interference. I had to trim about 3mm off my wheel openings and cant say if it was enough as I havent run it yet. Hoping to get out this afternoon for a pack or two.
Those tires still give the "big tire" look that were all trying to avoid and is somehow not present with the stock tires so I wouldnt say these are "the answer"... but they are better than many of the other SCT size tires ive seen out there.
I think some of the "big tire" look comes from the short course wheels. It has a thick rim, which makes the wheel seem smaller and the sidewall seem bigger. The stock rally wheels have a thinner rim and they took out just enough sidewall for it to look right. I would be curious to see what a short course tire would look like on a stock wheel.
Well, my stockers are shot and I havent glued the trepadors yet so maybe ill try them on the stock rims to see if your theory is right.
I like the look of the tires Pave, will be interesting to hear your opinion on them after some running of them, curious if they will 'drift' or not?
The Outerwears will likely be a big help keeping things clean on the inside, my wife is a seamstress so I think I will find some material like this and have here make a few of these up custome fit properly to the chassis and nerf bars.
I just installed my 2400kv last night and kept the ESC easily in front of the motor between the Rx box. I have never run a 2400kv before so I hope to find some time, light and good weather to do so. I am impressed with just how much resistance there is in turning that rotor, I also have a sensored Tekin SCx4 6.5t that has nowhere near the feel to the rotor but I have not tried that either I'll give a try to that sensored set up and see just how smooth it can be but will watch for runtimes on batteries as you reported.
I'm still waiting for a paintable Traxxas body and a better selection of fun tires to try too...............
I feel the same way with the Outerwears. It wasnt made for the Rally, so the fit isnt perfect for it. I had a spare one and mounted it to get some use from it. Hey it was there so I slapped it on. It has kept quite a bit of trash off the chassis pan. I've even thought about taking the nerf bars off myself. Plan on keeping it on or trying to make it work?
perhaps this is more obvious with the rally in your hands, but couldnt you just cut a slit in the cover where the nerf bars attach to the rest of the chassis and maybe add a little extra velcro so it still attaches nice and clean (and secure) on each side of the nerf bar slit?!
I noticed that your antenna is bent forward. I noticed this on mine too. if you put on the shroud normally, it will bend the antenna. You have to put the front part only half on the velcro. Could the antenna be damaged from being pushed forward?
Im concerned about cutting this material as it will likely fray. Maybe I could cut it and use some CA to seal it or something. I have to admit though, taking off the nerf bars is the simplest and most obvious solution (dang, why didnt I think of that). Thanks digger.
The antenna isnt being flexed to the point where its being damaged. But I dont like how it looks. Im going to move my RX box back into the chassis and will continue to tweak the cover till im happy with it. I havent attached the velcro to the front or rear shock towers so I can still tweak that area.
Ill get some time tomorrow to work on that stuff. Went and did my restricted firearms test tonight, passed with flying colors. Now I need to buy a Glock... hehe.
Hot knife should/would certainly seal up the edges where you cut it. It is basically a nylon material aren't they?
(RAH)² (AH)³ + [ROMA (1+MA)] + (GA)² + (OOH)(LA)²
i was thinking you could use a torch (or whatever a hot knife) to 'seal' the edges.... are the nerf bars there to help protect the shell from bending inward too much and cracking?! i would think you'd want them installed. but i can only speculate.
You could cut through the nylon material with a hot knife, but after that what would you do at the "V" to keep it from tearing any further? I would suspect stitching some material or velcro to support it there. I'd just think taking it on and off would eventually cause it to tear. I'm just thinking.
Im having all the same thoughts you guys are. Pondering what the best way to deal with this is. I dont own a hot knife... unless by "hot knife" you literally mean a heated butter knife. I can do that (hehe).
I may take it to my wifes mom and see if she can stitch it for me. Shes a seamstress so she should be able to do the job for me. We'll see. weather is crap here so I havent been able to get out and test the 3800 on 2S. Maybe tomorrow if its not raining.