I've sort of reset my goals from the start, the fast guys and buggies on a dry track are REALLY fast. I really don't know if the Bandit (or me) could ever beat them. But if I am within a second of their fastest times, and I don't get lapped over the 5 minute race then I would consider that mission accomplished
I've also changed my mind in the order of things... Originally I had said tranny upgrades before more speed, now I think more speed first. I am not diffing out much, nor do I feel like I need more anti-squat, nor is my motor running too hot... So the stock plastic tranny is doing its job.
What I need right now is acceleration and top speed, pure and simple
PS: I got a new front shock tower
Last edited by cunawarit; 08-04-2012 at 05:15 AM.
Sounds like a very realistic goal. Back when I first got my T4 for racing mod truck, I was running in 2nd week after week. The guy in first was lapping me pretty much every time and I was lapping up to third place every time. It was obvious that I wasn't gonna beat him any time soon. So, my goal was to stay on his lap and eventually it happened. Sometimes first place just isn't an option, but setting a realistic goal(like staying on the lead lap or keeping a consistent close lap time to the leader) can really help you to improve instead of getting discouraged.
Oh, and a year later I won the mod truck championship.
Right now my buggy is slower for sure, but having said that I can control it relatively well. I am not really sure that I could control one of those super quick buggies that always win the races.
Have you given any more thought to the aluminum/ delrin gear set with ball diff? I know you're already running the old stock plastic gears, so the weight savings may not be much, but the ball diff will probably reduce rotating mass slightly over the planetary diff and will also give you full adjustability so you can carve inside of those other buggies without diffing out.
I have given thought to the aluminium gear set and ball diff. It is something that I will definitely try out in the future. I fully appreciate the benefits it would bring (particularly the diff) But right now I'm trying to watch my spending so I am picking and choosing what to do next carefully.
I may be entirely wrong about this, but it seems to me that it used to be the case that power was kinda always hard to attain in RC. But now things have changed, huge power is relatively cheap so the gains to be made from lightening transmision components is not quite as large as they would have been in the past. So a large part of me thinks that the lipo battery wouldn't be a bad buy at all.
And yeah, it is a modded SRT tower Thanks for the tip, even after the cutting it is SO much stiffer than stock.
Is that a fiberglass SRT tower that you modded? Almost looks like a Blue Eagle tower:
So, racing again this evening and I've done some work to try and get more speed and grip roll less. Here it is:
Increased motor timing a tad, but not overdoing it. Tested it, and it runs hotter but not incredibly hot
Also got me a couple of these:
It is HUGE, so there goes my plan for a shorty Lipo I couldn't get a cheap shorty as club rules dictate that Lipos have to be BRCA approved. And I wasn't too bothered any more since the car seems to be very nicely balanced now.
Anyway, I did say huge, right... So I have to do this to make it fit:
A thick washer under here:
And under here:
I'm a little concerned about what it does to CG, but nothing that cannot be fixed easily with some stick on weights.
Length wise it didn't quite fit either without a hammer (not a good thing with a Lipo!), so I had to cut here:
I wanted to reduce edge bite on the tyres, so I clipped spikes off the tyres.:
From testing yesterday, the front seems to have helped a fair bit.
Then I did the rears too... I hope it works
what kind of track do you run on?
Grass, very grippy.
To cut a long story short I was second from last today on the B final (only and A and a B final). People whom I was close to the first time I went racing gave me a resounding beating today.
Now I feel that people whom I beat before are SO SO SO far ahead of me that they seem nearly unbeatable. For the first time I felt frustrated, which didn't help... Back to the drawing board when it comes to setup... And expectations, I need to go out and be clean even if it seems slow to me, it is better than rolling over on every corner
Overall not a happy Bandit racer today.
Last edited by cunawarit; 08-10-2012 at 06:16 PM.
OK think think, it grip rolls. What to do?.... First things, that come to mind:
* Go back to the softer red and pink springs, the roll will be taken by the suspension and not flip the car over. When I was running red and pink springs the car leaned over more, but it didn't roll so easy.
* Limit droop up front, I used to run less drop up front, I added some more in an attempt to get more front grip. Sounds like I should go back to what I had.
It seems like going back, but really I found this outing so frustrating I do want to go back
Advice from any seasoned racers?
Is anybody running ribbed front tires? Where I race they are the norm, but then again, all the tracks I've raced on are dirt. Ribs will surely cut down on front end bite, but maybe too much for a grass track.
Don't get frustrated. Perhaps it just wasn't your day. Trust me, it happens. The whole first month or so of the 2011 season I was driving like a noob. Took me that long to figure out that I was getting excited and over driving. New season and I wanted to make a statement. Unfortunately the statement I was making is "Don't worry about him anymore. He forgot how to drive." Once I figured out what I was doing wrong, I started getting my patience back and before you know it, was battling for TQ and a-main wins. Sometimes slow is fast.
Keep the faith!
Most of them are running staggered ribs, or cut staggered ribs, this sort of thing:
I already ordered some
Oh, and I know I am over driving, I'd never take the lines that I was taking on a 1:1 car, I was running wide too often, barrelling into turns too quickly, over jumping the jamps, etc.... I need to be calm and collected, much like the first time out, the first time out I expected to be last. And I was the slowest, but simply didn't crash as I never lost my cool and ended up not doing badly at all. Now that I know the car is much better, I expect to do better and lose my composure.
I have to admit, I came close to ordering a different buggy too
Lame I know, because at least 75% of the problem was me.
try some stock ribbed or proline ribbed front tires. they should have enough grip but not to much to roll you.
Yet more confirmation that I have somehow managed to set up the Bandit as a killer wet weather machine
This is me in second on the first heat:
And this is it in the back of my wagon after the final:
(its dark in there, but the track is lit )
The guy at the top is the same guy as before who made the "beaten by a Traxxas" comment He's changed his tune, and commented that the Bandit runs really well in the wet.
I've also considerably reduced grip rolling by doing the following (tested on a dry surface):
* I didn't realize this, but the reason the new lipos didn't fit was because the chassis has some little tabs on the bottom! I cut these off and it is now perfect! It doesn't need the washers any more. See green:
* After fitting the battery lower, I lowered the CG further with ballast, see this:
Also added some extra ballast right at the front (to give the new tyres a lil more grip), and on the right side where the receiver is to balance out the extra weight of the ESC and fan.
* Finally fitted the same tyres as everyone else on the track:
The last outdoor race is next week, as you can see from the pic of the Bandit there's not much light any more. So from then on the racing is indoors on carpet. A whole new experience with totally different tyres.
I decided that even if I get a race buggy (which I probably will), I will be keeping the Bandit as a wet weather car. I came third in third on the final, but to me it feels like the Bandit is potentially the best or second best at worst wet weather buggy in the club. I'm pretty sure I'm not winning in the wet because of my driving, not because the car is holding me back.
PS: I also zip tied the wing down, it worked! It didn't pop out during the whole club meet, which is nice as it usually does.
PPS: I actually got rained on heavily during a race this time! a minute into the 5 minute race it started raining LOTS! And the rostrum doesn't have a roof... I worried about my new 2.4 GHz radio for about 2 or 3 seconds and decided to stay on the track! I'm amazed at how well the Bandit's body keeps water out, my electronics are not waterproof! Other than some improvized electrical tape in a few key places before the race
PPPS: Also got big bore shocks for the front, the Ultras wouldn't stop leaking so rather than rebuild I got the big bores... WOW! They are a lot nicer!
Last edited by cunawarit; 08-27-2012 at 07:38 PM.
Now that we are moving indoors I will run EXACTLY what the majority runs, I won't make the mistake of assuming I need something different like I did when I went with spikes at the front because I thought the Bandit might need more grip.
Most people run yellow compound Schumacher minispikes at back, and green compound slim cut staggered ribs up front. And that's exactly what I am ordering
sounds like a plan. im gonna run some aluminum parts up front for strength and a little added weight and gonna order a proline tranny to lighten up the rear. should help reduce or eliminate understeer. what kind of springs are you running up front?
I'm running Losi oranges up front, and reds out back.
There's a kid at the club who runs quite a lot of aluminium parts on his Associated B4.1. He's hit stuff and when something breaks he replaces it with aluminium, which means there's a fair bit of aluminium up front now I haven't asked him how he find the handling, I've been narrowly faster than him and beat him at times and he's beaten me soundly when I've been driving like a noob too. At some point I'll ask him if he noticed a difference as he fit the aluminium on.
are those losi orange springs soft? you know the specs on it like length and spring rate? dont know why that kid adds aluminum to an already light and well balanced buggy. im only doing it cause the bandit isnt very well balanced and in the right places it adds strength without putting more stress on other parts.
Here's the Losi spring rate chart: http://www.teamlosi.ru/techtips/spring_chart.htm so 2", 2.9lbs. Yes they are quite soft, I tried red, but those were too soft. With 30 weight oil I found the oranges to be about perfect... Basically I bought red, organge, and silver and tried them out... The other spring I have is the stock black, which seems to requite two elephants to compress
Been thinking of going with 35 weight up front and 30 out back, but haven't tried it.
As for the kid, well his dad told me the aluminium was his doing. Dad got tired of replacing parts, apparently during the indoor season it is easy to hit walls and the kid did far too often. It may explain why he has what seems like the worst handling B4.1 in the club... Let's be honest, I'm his competition here and that's a bad sign
He never turns up when it rains though I now consider that my forte
i think rpm makes a few parts for his buggy. his dad needs to make it slower so he doesnt hit the wall so much. it may be a little while before i get that proline tranny though. its like 100 bucks here so how much does it cost just to ship it there?
The tranny is a fortune here through the official distributor (About $210!!!!)... Seriously, REALLY? You can freaking get a scrapyard tranny for a 1:1 car for that! I'd be surprised if they have sold a single one.
But I've started to see it cheap on Ebay (less than 90 bucks with shipping), which whilst not exactly cheap, it is far more reasonable.
ya you should be able to pick one up off the internet from proline or e-bay or somewhere for around 100-120. it shouldnt cost to much to ship it out to you.
Okay... If your having problems rolling.. Did you adjust the camber so the tires sit diagonallish wide at the bottom and tucked in at the top. Can you use proline protrac a-arms? That could help. Idk much about the bandit
Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL
Incidentally, the summer buggy racing season is over. And in the end I came 4th out of 26 people!!!! A number of things helped, firstly the incredibly wet summer, secondly my high attendance, and thirdly the Bandit just doesn't break!!! My final position doesn't reflect my speed or skill in any way, but I am not complaining
I've finished every race I have started without fail, the race buggies seem quite fragile by comparison. Last night I had one almighty big crash because I took my eye off the car for a second to watch a huge pileup on a set of doubles. The Bandit was A-OK!
Last edited by cunawarit; 09-01-2012 at 01:42 AM.
That is some very cool work you have done there. I am thinking of getting into buggy racing at my local track, but there are no Bandits in the field, your write up is a very good guide to follow.
I think you need one more step in your process:
Step 9: Install a wing that doesn't look silly and like an afterthought...
Submarine Qualified, Chief Inducted, Navy Retired
The looks don't annoy me so much, what really gets to me is what an awful mount it is. One hit, even if it isn't your fault and that's it you'll spend the rest of the race with a bent wing wire and a useless wing.
And you should give it a go and race your Bandit I don't think you'll find many clubs at all with a single Bandit to be honest. It isn't exactly a common choice for anyone looking to get into 2WD buggy racing
This thread is an inspiration. Good work. Nice to know that the brand that is considered "sloppy" at my track works very well in the slop at yours...
Ya can't polish fertilizer...
great job cuna. hopefully you got the bandit all cleaned off after that one race. lol.
I've wondered if it is the Bandit's long wheelbase that makes it easily controllable in the wet, on Friday on the fast corner I could literally turn in and lift off and slide it round... nobody else in a buggy seemed able to, but SC trucks could.
Moving to an indoor track from next week, so that's a whole new challenge! No more wet weather to make me look OK
And looking to move away from this area soon to a place with only two rather large off road tracks, we will see what that's like
Seriously, give me a year I reckon next summer I'll have a much more dialled in Bandit and be able to keep up on the dry as well. My skills need to improve too
ya i dont get hardly any track time so im not very good at all. i need to make some time though. when it kools off a little more ill be goin to the larger outdoor track as well
Submarine Qualified, Chief Inducted, Navy Retired
thats why i like the bandit. plus its more durable. doesnt hurt to have durability in your race car.
Durability is always good, and I am inclined to think it is great given that I've finished every race I've started. From what I've seen the failure rate of race buggies is higher.
However, that isn't the whole story, some of those race buggies have 6.5T motors and carry an extra 100g compared to my Bandit. They have to be hitting stuff harder too
Greatscott, if you are going for ROAR legal, please let me know if you get it to fix in the box I'm not certain anymore, but I still have doubts that the Bandit fits without at least some minor mods.
Also, FWIW Schumacher sells parts for its "vintage" cars, and I think so does Associated. They may not sell everything, but most of the crucial things are covered.
I think having great support as a by-product of the platform's age has benefits and drawbacks. Not having to change buggy every 2 or 3 years is nice, but fighting for the lead with 18 year old technology does, like it or not, put you at a disadvantage. The Slash is different as lots of people are racing that and pushing the platform forward, but the Rustler and Bandit are virtually unknown entities at the track, and they will never get any more popular than they are given their age... You, the racer will have to do a lot of the basic groundwork yourself that usually would be easy. For example, if you were racing a popular race buggy at a certain track you can download set-up sheets from top racers for that track. There's no hope of doing that with a Rustler and Bandit, specially because any Rustler or Bandit racing successfully will be so far from stock that no two of them would be the same.
Last edited by cunawarit; 09-03-2012 at 03:15 AM.
i picked up my bandit for 50 bucks. building it up from there.
It is an inspiration. I am in the same boat racing my slash. Every time I get into the lead, the announcer says... "thats a Traxxas beating you Tim!". Tim wins all the time. Well, almost. I have 5 a-main wins in the last 7 months. The ballpark setup I walked in the door with the first day was close and accidental also. I have made these guys faster lol. Everyone went to work to improve setups. They have also added more power. No one wants me to beat them lol...
Ya can't polish fertilizer...
* Grip roll issue 100% solved! The tyres and under chassis weight worked an absolute treat! I'm a little tempted by an aluminum chassis, but I haven't seen one that would provide the weather protection I need for rain usage... Then again, gip rolling is not an issue with a wet track, so perhaps I need two Bandits, one for rain with a plastic chassis and one for the dry with an alu chassis
* Winter season started and it is in an indoor carpet track (one of the biggest in the country), it is huge for an indoor track! This is it being set up:
And another good thing is that the layout is stable, so its easier to judge week-on-week how much you've improved (or got worse).
* I learned that indoor racing is hard on the car! Hit a wall and absolutely destroyed two wheel bearings, but used this opportunity to upgrade to 5x11 bearings all around. Oh boy are the better!!! Silky smooth.
* Finally got sick and tired of bending or losing the freaking wing wire... Got a new wing mount from Team-C (the one for the TC02):
* Somehow with smashed wheel bearings I managed to come third out of 7! I was quite slow, but so was everyone else apart from the top two guys Narrowly beat a B4.1 fair and square that was driven by a grown up, that felt good
* My setup the first time out on carpet was OK but not perfect, I was understeering a bit (not much), to combat this I've gone for softer compound tyres up front, and upgraded to a much faster servo.
* My 12T sensorless motor is struggling a little with heat, most of the field is on 6.5T motors, and the only way I can run it and not be left hugely behind is by upping the timing a bit. So it gets hot... Not much I can do about this till I get a faster motor, I don't think my ESC could cope with much more than a 9t... May have to upgrade that before December too. On grass there was no heat issue, on the much faster carpet track the heat issue is there. I wasn't the only one a guy running a "slow" (his words) 7.5T motor was suffering from heat too. BTW, he won
And finally, I am probably entering the Bandit for a racing series sponsored by one of the mayor RC manufacturers... I have to say, I am a little hesitant but I will do it The first race starts in December, and it is hosted in the very same carpet track I raced at last so I'll get a chance to get a nice setup. The main difference is that for the racing series the jumps are way bigger, so somehow I will need to practise my jumping too.
By December I want to be at 250mm width. So I will be losing the hexes and going with Traxxas wheels. Not a big issue as the series has control tyres, so new wheels would be the thing to do anyway. I'll probably get the chrome wheels and de-chrome them so they are white (can't be driving an RC buggy with chrome wheels!).
Last edited by cunawarit; 09-12-2012 at 03:45 AM.
A quick little update to say that the wing mount is one of the best mods I have done to the Bandit. It's SO SO SO much better than stock. Its one of those mods that EVERYONE should do.
Also, that I've been racing indoors on carpet for a little while now and I think I may be getting to the limits of the Bandit before doing something really radical like a fully custom chassis. I am 3 seconds off the fastest guys in mid motor buggies (guys supported by manufacturers!) and only a second and a half to a second off "normal" fast guys. And these are guys with mid-motor buggies, there's very little in it between me and any other rear motor buggy.
I still lack consistency for sure and need to get better, but for the first time ever I am starting to think that most of what is holding me back now isn't so much me, but the Bandit!
There main issues are:
* It is SO slow over the quick switching tight turns compared to most, the mid motor and 4WD buggies just BLAZE round these. Even the shorter rear motored buggies are a lil quicker than me here. This is losing me a tonne of time, I've softened the front a little for the next meet, but I am not holding my breath. This is where other rear motor buggies are a little quicker than me, which is a shame because I'm faster in other parts of the circuit.
* Looking at the other drivers I feel they can feather the throttle on turns and get on throttle earlier than I can. This could be due to the having more anti-squat than me.
I'm getting to the point where I feel the best course of action is to get a race buggy to do a side by side comparo... A guy at the track offered to let me drive his Durango DEX 210, may take up the offer I'm a little intimidated by his motor, its a 6.5T or something insane like that!!!
The only issue with getting is race buggy is that I don't want to give up the Bandit So I'm likely to want to get not just a new buggy, but also electronics for it.
PS: You'll enjoy this one, a guy with a Losi 22 commented that the Bandit is indestructible. half the field retired today!
Last edited by cunawarit; 09-28-2012 at 08:24 PM.
hmmm time for a jang light wait mod
cut the blank out of the chassis. cut the rear transmission and dremal both front an rear arms to save weight then if its to light least you can ''place the weight'' where you need it
other then that i dont have a chassis to look at right now but try moveing the battery up as much as possible
and if you can machine get a hr(leat i think the transmision has squat blocks) transmision so you can make diffrent a arm tabs/squat
and best of luck your inspirering me
summit /mustang /stampede-2s spc lipo
hey there do you have eny updates there cunawarit?
summit /mustang /stampede-2s spc lipo
There have But I am saving it for when I get a new tranny case with adjustable anti-squat, I've ordered it and I'm just waiting for it to arrive from the USA.
If you are interested I've done the following:
* RPM rear shock tower: OK, it isn't adjustable. But boy is it strong! I've never been too unhappy with the back end, so the RPM seemed like a cheap and easy upgrade. The other thing is that I drilled it much more tidily than my stock tower and the Team-C wing mount that I use just fits perfectly, the plastic material seems almost identical between the RPM and Team-C parts.
* Personal transponder: It turns out I suffer from bad memory, and I used to forget to put in the hand out transponder a number of times. Now with a personal transponder that will never happen again
* Went back to softer soft red springs up front and running soft compound Schumacher cut staggers. It has more steer now, getting used to it still, but I'm about 2 secs a lap quicker than I used to be. So now if I drive right I can be up with the slower fast guys, so right at the top of the B-final.
I had the Bandit running GREAT! The best it has run ever on a dry surface. I issue I have right now is that the track surface was kinda wrecked last time I was out. Turns out that another club borrowed the carpet and installed it upside down and returned it all dusty, so everyone was having handling issues, it was nightmarish! Buggy all dusty after a run, and no front grip at all! I'll see how long it takes for the surface to fix itself, but if its still bad next time I am out I may put mini-pins up front if they have them in stock at the track side.
Anyway, when I install the new tranny I will take pics, I think people might like to see how nice the wing mount looks with the RPM shock tower, and I reckon people might want to see the tranny
I'll also will take pics of my electronics, which I don't think I've done enough of so far...