THere was alot of sarcasm in that response being that I am the one who used the word OVERALL and not steve... but thanks for the answer...Originally Posted by pvalenti
SLash 4x4 PE
I answered my own question and it is YES.Originally Posted by round
As I said the sarcasm wasn't intended...you are right you DID say Overall...my bad there. Some people have assumed in the past that the shock length was measured from hole to hole...it's not...it's overall...like YOU said!Originally Posted by jnelson214
Slash 4X4 #25 (Mark Jenkins)
I finally had a chance to run a couple packs through my Slayden setup 4x4...HUGE IMPROVEMENT over stock (and my own tweaks). It hasn't seen the track yet, but I was able to run on a variety of surfaces and the difference was night and day. The biggest difference is with the stock tires on loose dirt (local HS track). Previously it was all over the place...much more in control now. I have calibers and bowties which should take it up another notch...but saving those for the track.
I'm running the initial setup, sans center diff, and just noticed the revision a page or so back. Why did you go lighter on the f/r diffs?
Appreciate the help Steve!
I need some help with my new pe. I race indoors on a clay track. It has the stock setup and it feels way over sprung. Is there a good base setup I can start wiht. I have calibers on it and I have the slipper in it . I put 5k in both front and rear and it has way to much stearing. thanks for the help!
The base setup is on Page 1 of this thread. START there...and since you say you have too much steering, try using the plastic steering knuckles and attach the steering link to the back hole.
Slash 4X4 #25 (Mark Jenkins)
yo slaydaddy how,s racing.?my outdoor track starts very soon,and i previously asked you about different rear camber links and there effect on the truck in different positions.this is my 2nd year racing.last year i raced nitro buggy and slash.im starting to learn setups,but its hard to see changes when my driving is less than perfect.so now racing the 4x4 im pretty confident and consistent racing it,but ultimately i want to dial in the setup for my outdoor club racing.same track every race.my rc8b manual has setup changes in the back pages.it explains what different adjustments do ,grip,turn in,exit steering,and squaring up for jumps.can i use this for my slash 4x4 as reference ???or does it not respond the same being lighter and whatnot.?sorry for rambling on,but im close to understanding it .thx again for your help!!!!!!
How much diff lube is the right amount in the front rear and center diff for the 4X4 Slash. Should it be 1/2, 1/4, or up to the pin? It seems the amount has as much effect as the weight of the lube, perhaps even more effect if it's too full.
one thing you cld do to take steering away is go thicker front diff fluid.try 10,ooo.even 15k .u cld also up the rear fluid to 7k.if its a smooth track not to bumpy go with the thicker of the 2....15k frnt-7k rear.if its really bumpy,try 10k frnt-and stay with the 5 in the rear.im not steve,but thought u mite want to these sugestions after all i learned it from steve.Originally Posted by bustedparts
avconslt, for the 2650 motor, an 18t pinion is a good starting point for 52t or 54t spurs. Your track size and conditions should dictate ulimately what's best. This is for 2S setups.
3S batteries may want to gear down a little because it'll be a little too fast for most tracks geared more than that (above).
BC Slasher, yes, start with the upper/ outer hole on those.
Without getting too deep into roll center lingo, let me put it this way:
- Upper row: more camber rise
- Lower row: less camber rise
- Outer holes: less (lower rate of) camber change (larger arc)
- Inner holes: More (greater rate of) camber change (smaller arc)
Camber rise: The amount of camber change when the suspension moves from ride height to fully compressed. This can also be measured and adjusted between fully extended and fully compressed. Example: This can become important when trying to tune your suspension to land into rough terrain without getting kicked left to right.
Camber change rate: The outer eye of a camber link rotates on an arc of a circle. The longer the rod, the larger the circle (arc). What this means at the wheel is the longer link will provide less camber change as the suspension is compressed.
more camber change = less consistent tire contact patch. less traction.
less camber change = more consistent tire contact patch. more traction.
I tend to prefer heavy camber rise with a small rate of camber change. This equals longer links mounted upper on the outer and lower on the inner. Sometimes this will change but not much.
There's also an entirely separate issue of roll center and suspension geometry concerning the camber links. What I said above obviously only covers the effects of camber change. Which is what most people need to learn before the rest anyway.
Hope this helps.
auto2, I think your question was answered, but I would like to add that going into a corner backwards really isn't the best way to enter. Maybe sometimes it happens if your rear end gets pitched accidentally, but keep on the throttle to keep the motor spinning the right direction and to get your tires ready to propel the chassis in the right direction. I would practice on entering the corners with less throttle, a tap on the brakes, setting the chassis, then accelerating through the corner. More consistent that way anyway.
round, I listed a good window of gearing options in my last setup posting. I don't like to give just one gearing setup. It's only good for a specific group of conditions.
However, I feel the 18/ 52 combo is a good 'base' setup for the 2650 on 2S.
3S is going to be a little much, but gearing a little lower for that setup should make it controllable. Lesser quality 3S packs may not be as bad. It will be pretty fast though.
A good solid 2S pack should be plenty for competitive racers. I used a Thunder Power 5200 50C at RCX all weekend and it would overshoot the triples on the 1/8 buggy track pretty easily. It was very smooth to drive too.
Last edited by Slaydaddy; 04-04-2010 at 10:01 PM.
jnelson214, end to end on the shocks.
I relate my setup that way cuz it's easier for people to measure with a set of calipers rather than having to use a shock jig.
pvalenti, go easy on 'em. That was actually a fairly common question. I don't mind answering.
tchrstm, rough and loose tracks tend to prefer lighter diff fluids. Thicker fluids will cause the chassis to jerk left to right under acceleration on rough surfaces. Plus is helps the chassis rotate in dusty corners.
BC Slasher, i have not read that publication, but most setup-based books are pretty consistent. I would say read it and take in what you can and apply what you've learned and take notes on what your real-life effects were. Read as much setup stuff as you can.
That coupled with lots of track time, you will soon then start reacting to changes naturally and refer to your notes less.
I learned a lot back in the day from the Serpent 1/8 Vector on-road setup manual. I carried it with me everywhere. It had lots of stuff in it that proved to be true to me over time and I applied it to many different forms of racing. Physics are physics... Different forms of racing will push the limits of physics to different levels in each of their own respective worlds. A lot of it crosses over, and some areas are way more involved than others.
dirt dealer, Fill the case up to where you can still allow room for the outer output gear that is attached to the cover. You will learn from experience the right amount, but the intent is to fill the diff completely.
The only time I don't fill diffs all the way is when I need to use a viscosity that I don't have. For instance if I need a diff to feel like 10K and all I have on me is 30K, then I would experiment with filling the case up to only 25% for starters and see how it feels. Obsviously that just ballparks it, but that's all you can do when you're at the track and you only have 30K.
Anyway. try to find the right viscosity for the job and fill the diff all the way. that's my recommendation.
thx steve that deffinetly helps.my outdoor racing starts next weekend,so i will start taking some notes and see if i can get dial it in to our track.
Any advice on preventing rollovers? I would have done much better at the last race if the truck didn't traction roll much of the time. There's this one section that has a double, than a fast left-right turn that always gets me. This is with the heavy swaybars on and M3 calibers.
Been there, broken that.
TrpleD, traction rolls can happen in many different situations. It also varies considerably on how easy they are to induce. First, determine overall bite around the entire track and then take a look at the traction in the problem areas.
Figure out if what you want to do to remedy the problem areas isn't going to hurt the other areas in a negative way. Sometimes stiffening the sway bar will resolve a traction roll problem. Most times it's because the problem wasn't too bad to begin with. If a traction roll problem is really bad, then roll bar settings really aren't going to be a huge factor. Sometimes, stiffening the bar can actually make traction rolls MORE violent. Because if bite is so great that traction rolls are a big problem, then a stiffer setup will enhance the rate of speed that the chassis rolls.
Best thing to realize is that sway bars aren't the best answer for most traction roll problems. It's all too common for many racers to stiffen their setup or tighten the bars to reduce roll. This IS effective in reducing chassis roll but it does less for reducing traction. Sway bars should be used more for fine tuning. This means for changing the characteristics of handling in a smaller way rather than making a large difference.
Traction is primarily derived from the contact between the tire and the surface. Try going to a tire with more scrub. Afterall, tire scrub is what prevents traction roll. Try to find a tire that grips well, but not too much. You want to be able to push the truck hard into the corners. If it's tipsey everywhere then switch tires FIRST. Even if it's only in a couple sections. If the sections are bad enough that you're flipping every lap, then it's worth it to try different tires first. Tires alone should get you into the ballpark. Then after that use the adjustments on the chassis to fine tune handling.
In your case, go back to a comfortable sway bar setting, and then switch to M2 compound Calibers. This should should add some scrub in the corners. You can also try the S1 compound Traxxas tires. Their tread design isn't as agressive as the Calibers or other track racing tires.
Ride height is also a big factor in traction roll. Try lower ride height settings. A small change can make a big difference with traction and chassis roll. Make sure that the height is still high enough for the rough sections of the track.
Let me know how it goes.
I had he same issue 2 weeks ago. I rechecked my ride height and the back was sitting a bit high. I lowered it a little and it made a big difference. I'm about 1-2mm under Steve's base setup.Originally Posted by Slaydaddy
Thank you for the quick reply. I do have a pair of m2 calibers, maybe I'll throw those on the rear and stockers on the front and see how it goes. The track I'm racing at this weekend is a much more open layout which should help some as well.
Been there, broken that.
I have been running my Slash mostly on pavement so far, but plan on taking it to the park soon. I will not be racing, just bashing in parks and baseball fields.
I printed out the setup sheet from page 1 in this thread. Is that the setup I want for my truck for bashing?
Also, what springs should I go with on my stock shocks?
I plan on getting Big Bores soon. Do I need different springs on these also?
Last edited by RobF353; 04-06-2010 at 07:54 PM.
I just tried to do the front and had some problems.
I changed the shock positions to B and 2. I then changed the C-hub screw to the bottom.
I ran into trouble with the camber link position. The sheet says to put it tot he 1 hole. I did this and noticed my wheels were not straight at all. They were leaning out on the top of the tires (dont know what this is called, sorry). Is it supposed to be in the 1 hole? Do I need to change the length on the turnbuckles to correct this?
The I went to the rear and everything looks to be the same as stock, except for camber and the shock oil. What should I change in the rear?
Please help me out, I want my truck to perform better.
Definatley need to adjust the front turnbuckles to Steves specs.
What is the size of the turnbuckles supposed to be?Originally Posted by round
Also, there is a hole on the suspension arms all the way on the inside. Do you count that as #1 or no?
Originally Posted by Slaydaddy
this was one specific corner , very smooth and my car had a push in that corner on throttle. it was a u turn 180 with a double 4 feet after the turn. if i ran it by heading for the apex i missed the double. so i went in deep and gave the steering a wiggle to unload the rear and powered out once straight. besides it looked cool lol.cant wait to run my slash there this year.
I got my platinum almost all set up to your spec now and the rear wants to hop over holes/whoops. It will flip/endo at speed. I'm thinking I tightened up the sway-bars on the chassis side too much, no allowing them to rotate/transfer torque to the opposite side and in effect stiffing the spring rate? My question is are ya supposed to tighten the sway-bar attaching screws down or leave then a little loose? Any other solutions??
Also I'm confused on the sway-bar recommendation? I run a indoor packed clay track. Should I run the black or silver bars? Right no I have the black on the front (6mm) and silver (2mm) on the rear?
I really don't drive well enough to tell what's going on but it is much more drivable with your set up.
Wrong thread, sorry!
Last edited by RobF353; 04-08-2010 at 11:36 PM.
those are the mounting holes for a sway bar.. no?Originally Posted by RobF353
VXL Slash 4x4
VXL Slash 2wd
i run on a loose, rough(stony) mid sizes and mid speed track
i have a set of the stock slash 2wd progressive front springs and also a set of the old black rustler front springs
the black rustler ones feel a bit softer, which would i be best off using?
and if possible could someone explain why? id like to learn all this stuff so i can eventually make my own setup decisions
edit: and are there any similar springs to the Tmaxx progressives i can use? i cant find any
i can find the red non progressive springs?
Last edited by rcsammy; 04-09-2010 at 05:51 PM.
Hey Steve, I havent been on the thread since page one. Used your original set up this weekend at an outdoor track in Ct. Qualified 3rd overall, placed second in the A main.(lost a lower front left kingpin screw). I'm the kind of guy that if it works, don't touch it! A couple of questions: I had plenty of power left at the end of each heat, can I go down from a 54 to a 52 gear? Also, I cant get the truck to "fly" right. Tried different bodies, cut out back window, etc. I don't want to move the battery forward, as I literally pass every other truck in the technical part of the track. Any suggestions? Thanks
robf353, you're in the right thread. I make sure things get answered in this thread, but sometimes I'm gone for a week at a time.
For what you're doing, I wouldn't worry too much about setup. Just drive it and have fun.
During the meantime, you can read up on the manual and get yourself familiar with the adjustments and where they are and what they do.
oldhippie, yeah, it sounds like you overtightened the sway bar screws. That binds the suspension making it buck over bumps real bad. Set those screws so that there is just a small amount of play with the bar. The bar should fall under its own weight when dettached from the arm links. Your ultimate goal is that every pivoting suspension component moves freely.
As far as setup, that's ultimately determined by you and your needs. There are a lot of factors that go into making most any suspension adjustment.
Start with the softer bars all around with a medium setting, and then test it. Determine how it feels in relation to the bars. This being how quick it initiates turns and how well it rotates in the corners, see how it turns entering, middle, and exit. How much available traction is there? Is it sliding or is it lifting the inside tires? Bars will also make the chassis kick left to right on uneven surfaces. Firmer bars and setting will be worse.
Take all this into consideration. Then look at what your options will give you.
General things to think about when choosing settings:
- softer settings are easier to drive
- stiffer settings will make the chassis feel twitchy
- tune the bars to match your hand/ eye reflexes
- more rear bar = more steering
- more front bar = more push
- stiffer front bar settings does not always eliminate traction roll
Let that soak in and do some testing. You'll find a happy balance for your driving style and conditions.
rcsammy, the linear reds, whites or blacks for Rustler work good on the rear as well. Try em out.
Slash 2wd fronts are also a good choice for the front. They are softer than the 4x4 front springs and that is the right direction to go.
Try the red linears in the back and the Slash 2wd springs up front and see what you think. If the front chatters a little then switch to the linear fronts.
Platinum Slash, Try gearing up for more rpm at the wheels. Make sure motor temps are good. The extra speed will help with jumps. Remember to allow room for more throttle when jumping. If you get nose down, you'll need it to recover.
the 52t spur will give you more rpm. You can also gear up a tooth or two on your pinion. Try it out. Just keep an eye on motor temps. A 15/54 combo or a 15/52 combo is pretty good on a lot of mid-size to larger tracks. 16/54 is good on larger tracks and if you have punchy 40C or 50C Lipo packs.
NO that is for sway bars.Originally Posted by RobF353
Slash 4X4 #25 (Mark Jenkins)
Originally Posted by Slaydaddy
Note: I meant this to be for the Velineon system on 2S
Looking for some set-up help for a box stock 4x4class. We are allowed to use up to PE edition mods & can change shocks oils & diff fluids but must run stock springs & stock tires. And also stock electronics (minus radio of your choice of course).