I just picked up some aluminum pieces. Here's some data for those that are curious and I couldn't find posted anywhere.
4 metal rocker posts: 20g
4 aluminum rocker posts: 6g
8 Metal pivot balls: 55g
8 Titanium pivot balls: 30g
24 metal hollow balls: 16g
24 aluminum hollow balls: 6g
TRX S1 Tire: 60g
TRX foam that comes w/ tires: 6g
TRX wheel: 22g
For all you weight conscious rc builders like me I created a website that gathers all these weight measurements I have been posting. It also has many other measurements that are not part of this build or that I have stumbled upon in finding the answers. Check it out and contribute if you like. It is being hosted in a temporary location to test the traffic and it might not be available 24x7 initially. I hope that it is helpful to others: http://www.rcweights.com
You'll see all of the Traxxas parts on there I have been using for this build.
I have made and remade my tie rods and push rods to be lighter. The stock steel tie rod weighs 12grams, then I made a 1/4" aluminum version that weighs 9g, then came the 3/16" aluminum version at 5g and finally an idea I got from a good friend, the cabon fiber arro shaft + 1/4" delrin insert that also weighs 5g but looks so cool that I'm going to stick with them. Also the delrin has no play with the rod end set screw. Here's a picture that captures it all:
I guess I should tell how I made the tie rods. The 1/4" and 3/16" aluminum is just tube I tapped for a 3mm set screw. The carbon is a little more involved. I tap a 1/4" delrin rod for 3mm. Then it needs to be turned down just a little to fit inside the arrow shaft. I don't have a lathe so I chuck it up in my drill press and hold sand paper around it till it's the right diameter. Then I put some CA glue on 3/4" of the delrin rod and I stick the delrin about 3/4" into the shaft. I let it dry and then cut the delrin rod flush w/ the end of the arrow shaft. Done. I create an extra long set screw for one end and all my adjustment will be from one end.
Last edited by mulepic; 12-21-2010 at 09:00 PM.
I installed all the aluminum and titanium parts I mentioned above and the RTR weight dropped from 6lbs 7oz to 6lbs 4oz. The car handled great and I got a little too confident. I bent all for of the titanium pivot balls in the front with some nasty crashes on a tripple. I replaced them w/ aluminum ones but I don't expect them to last long while I'm learing to improve my driving. I also screwed up and connected my tekin rs esc backwards w/ those goofy new battery connectors. It was b/c one of my batteries had the + and - opposite of the other batteris. While I wait for its return, I'm using an ezrun 60a esc w/ a fan. This esc added a little bit of weight. With the ezrun I'm trying out the new castle 4-pole 1406 5700kv motor. It's more efficient and more torgue. I'll report on it later.
I managed to remove some weight by reducing motor wire lengths, drilling holes in the bulkhead tie bars, and trimming up the skid plates. My new RTR weight is 6lbs 3/4oz. I have titanium (better titanium this time) suspension pins and aluminum wheel nuts. I'm hoping these will get me to the 6.0lbs mark. Of course when the tekin RS comes back I hope to be under 6lbs. I'll hit the track on Friday and update how it handles.
I also made another modification to the front suspension to increase the down travel and allow the height to be adjusted from the push rod and not the shock. Detailing this will be a whole other post.
Last edited by mulepic; 01-09-2011 at 09:12 PM.
The titanium suspension pins are 11g lighter than stock and the aluminum wheel nuts are 6g lighter than stock. Tekin sent back my RS ESC very quickly and it is installed. I am finally under 6lbs! I'll post a picture of the truck in its final form. You can find all the parts and their weights along w/ the stock parts and weights at http://www.rcweights.com
I ran the truck at the track this weekend and it performs very well. It was easy to put down consistent laps. Here are some of my notes:
1. The traxxas SC tires in S1 compound w/ HPI soft foams worked very well. They have great traction but give just a little to allow the truck to slide a bit out of the turn. The stock traxxas foam that comes w/ the tire was too hard and too little traction. I definitely prefers over the commonly used pin tires.
2. The cc 1406 5700kv motor was the biggest surprise. It put out more power than I expected b/c I had to gear it way low to keep it at a top speed of 28mph. In addition to more speed and torque, my batteries ran longer by at least 20%. Also it did not run hot at all. I was prepared to put a fan on the motor but it never got more than warm, maybe 110 degrees tops. This was a big surprise. I like the motor, but I'm not sure I like sensorless which leads to my next note
3. The tekin connected to the cc 1406 worked fine except for a series of 180 turns. The cogging seemed a bit obvious compared to running a sensored motor. The esc didn't over heat either; never more than 3 lights on the temp sensor. Again, I was ready to put a fan on it b/c I thought it would over heat. But I'm going to forego the tekin and try the ezRun 60A esc. It seems to run just a bit smoother w/ the cc 1406 than the tekin rs at least running on my street. I hope it works out otherwise sensorless is probably not for me.
4. The suspension mod I made to give more down travel and less up travel worked well. It help land some of the jumps softer but I can't tell if it affected corner speed. I'm going to make the same mode to the rear and decide later to keep the mod or not.
5. The center diff seems too loose. The car almost feels like it stands still coming off the turn as the front unloads and spins the front tires. I may actually try removing the center diff for the stock locked one.
6. The aluminum pivot balls in the front survived well. My last outing I bent all 4 of the integy titanium pivot balls in the front and replaced them w/ the traxxas aluminum ones. I was under the impression the aluminum would bend easier but I also heard integy titanium is sub-standard. You decide but the traxxas aluminum pivot balls worked great and weigh less.
pretty amazing how thorough you are with your notes and such, very interesting mule!
Master of Traxxas engine longevity....
I discovered tack time seems to really put parts to the test. One of the things that was bothering was the pivot balls. Every battery I would have to check if the pivot ball retainer in the knuckle loosed up or if the pivot ball itself unthreaded slightly from the suspension arm thus changing the camber. The unthreading seems to be more of an issue when you upgrade from steel pivot balls to aluminum or titanium. When you have a new suspension arm the aluminum/titanium pivot balls seem to install tightly. My solution to these two issues was to install a set screw on the knuckle and the suspenion arm. There are actually 2 on the knuckle and 2 on the suspension arm. A picture is much better than words:
I spent 5 hours at the track last Friday. It was great, I learned a lot about the car and made some changes. And in that time of running about 8 packs I only broke an aluminum pivot ball. I was impressed. Here are some notes:
1. DO NOT HAVE ANY DRAG BRAKE. I was beside myself b/c the truck would nose dive horribly on any jump. I thought for sure it had to do w/ the long travel suspension mod I made. It turned out to be the drag brake was set by default (I had switched to the ezrun esc). I turned it to 0 and the truck flies great and w/ the extra down travel it lands awesome!
2. The added down travel added a bit of instability in the turns. A light swaybar in the back fixed that. But the truck lands extremely well and in control now. No more slapping the ground on every jump.
3. I added the mechanical brake to the rear which was a great feature. I could turn the car on a dime w/ the brake, but in the end the extra weight was not worth it so I removed it.
Things to come:
1. Longer Shock Shafts: I added down travel by relocating the shocks. I had to create a custom shock mount for this. I found some longer shock shafts that I hope work. These should give me the added down travel but allow me to use the stock mounts.
2. 500-sized out runner: Out runner motors have a ton of torque comparatively to the same sized in-runner. I found a 500 sized out runner that I ran a battery back through on my street. I did WOT runs along w/ heavy braking drills. The motor ran great and never got hot. The best part is that it's 3 ounces lighter than my current 540 sized motor. I hope to start using this motor shortly
3. Tranny elimination: When running brushless there is no need for all those tranny gears. So I'm working on a simplified tranny that emulates what you typically see in 1/8 scale buggies. I'm hoping to test it out in a couple of weeks. This should remove about 3 ounces.
4. Going short: To be ROAR legal for 1/10 SC the truck has to have a track width of 11.6" that means the new longer suspension arms will not work if I want to race. I'm going back to the shorter arms, chassis, and body. This should reduce the weight by 3 ounces.
5. Ceramic bearings: Boca Bearings is having a 50% off sale. With a now reasonable price, I couldn't resist the lure of lighter ceramic bearings so I ordered a set. I hope they remove an ounce.
In the end, if the truck still handles great as a ROAR legal SC I will think about racing it. The key will be getting the weight down to 5.5lbs (ROAR min) otherwise the e-slayer will probably be too tippy.
Hey Mulepic, nice work on the E-Slayer. What are you going to do on the tranny? Isn't there a single-speed revo transmission thats smaller and lighter, was wondering if that would fit into the Slayer with locked gears and center diff?
My problem though is that I run very low gearing and high KV motors. I can't find any mod 1 gears that fit this bill but 48p and 32p gears do. I currently using 48p gears b/c that is what I have laying around.
Long story short I can use OEM traxxas gears and remove 3.5 ounces. This should get me into the neighborhood of 5.5lbs for RTR.
I'll post a picture once I get some testing done. I'm not sure the 48p gears are going to hold up but I do love how quiet they are compared to mod 1. But 48p don't seem as efficient, I wonder if there is some truth to that, anyone know?
I've finished the conversion on mine. Haven't explored the transmission yet, but I want to see your lightened single-speed tranny. I want to eliminate the brake servo in the near future....
Running weight on mine is 8.5lbs. It runs pretty good on 4S. Have a center diff ordered for it...
With that size motor there is no need for the mechanical brake. Anything you can do to reduce the weight will improve the handling.
I finally got to taking a picture of my long travel suspension mod. I did this when I discovered that when you disconnect the pushrod the suspension arm will droop much further. It turns out the rodends are binding at either end of the pushrod. At the suspension arm you need the rodend to be a little offset to the inside to clear the upper suspension arm crossbrace. At the cantilever the rod end needs to be bent down to deal w/ the severe angle of the pushrod. In the end I found the axial part tree that has both rodends needed to do this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSAT0
Here is what it looks like on the rear:
The front pushrods only needs the upper rodend b/c there is no suspension arm interference. This mod has dramatically helped the truck land big jumps.
My raiden is just a little bigger. Thanks for the data, I had a feeling these outrunners were more efficient than the inrunners. I'll be running my raiden when I convert to the smaller slayer chassis (the old one). I hope it works out.
I got the chance to test out my single gear tranny conversion at the track today. I was pretty fearful the spur gear would let go but I'm happy to say it didn't. The conditions were pretty rough too. I didn't use the center diff b/c if this didn't work I'd be out a center diff and there is no slipper. With a lot of traction the spur mount I created definitely got a workout. I ended up using 32p gears which worked great. I was able to nearly match my final drive ratio I use to run w/ the stock tranny 17:1 vs. 16.5:1. So my batteries ran just as long, the speed was nearly the same, and temperatures were the same as before. The noticeable benefits were the reduced weight and the freed up drivetrain. The car is more forgiving in the turns and bumps w/ the new weight. On the jumps I can now get the car to respond better to throttle input while in the air.
Now that I know the tranny will work I'll use the center diff b/c w/o it laying down the power was a bit more tricky. I am also going back to the smaller chassis/arms to be ROAR legal for racing. At that time I'll put in the ceramic bearings. I'm also playing w/ a transverse battery holder. This is important w/ the single gear tranny b/c now the motor is in the center and the battery on the side throws off the balance. Once I have all this complete I'll post a picture.
Your transmission mod sounds like you def got alot less rotational mass out of it. Thats what I was surprised to notice about mine just holding it off the ground: The initial spool-up is slow in first gear, then when it hits second gear, BAM it revs hard. I got the center diff, so hope to be doing a trans mod soon, and eliminate the brake servo, hopefully getting down to 7.5lbs in the process. (2nd gear lock, and eliminate some gears and the one-way).
Here's a vid of me racing my 4S E-Slayer last weekend. I placed LAST. lol. It seemed like I could hang with the E-buggys but my lap times were about 2 seconds slower, but not bad for still on stock tires! I almost hit the marshall-gal at one point...
(oh btw, the action is centered on the truggy, because he was the one wearing the hat-cam. haha.
Show off your trans mod when you get it wrapped up!
Last edited by SilentWolv; 03-02-2011 at 07:49 AM.
I watched your video and if I'm correct that track looks more technical than fast. I see you are tip-toeing around the corners careful not to roll. With that in mind you'll notice huge improvements w/ anything you do to reduce the weight. So in that spirit, if I were you I'd get rid of the 4s lipo in favor of 2s and gear up. Have a little less topend won't hurt you but added corner speed will help greatly. Remove the mechanical brake b/c that motor is more than enough to slow that thing down. Those 2 changes will probably remove over 1/2 lbs for you which will be very noticable. Also check your ride height. I'm just under 1" front and back. Once you do that, if you have a smaller motor and esc laying around give that a try. As for the tires get the traxxas s1 versions. They grip better but are lighter than your typical pin tire.
You are correct. It was shifting into second by mid-to end of the straight, and messing me up going into the corner. It didn't want to roll, but traction was drifting around. I need to get some 14mm wheels for it, and the Snipers are what works good on our track, M2. I'm going to keep the 4S... trying to start an 8th scale CORR truck class... didn't work with the SC8e. But its pretty decent fast on the 3S too. Here's the outcome of the ESlayer in the main...
Hey Mulepic, hope you don't mind me posting more pictures to your thread. I know the transmission mod is where your at now, so I wanted to show you what I did to mine. I'm pretty happy with it, it seems pretty stong, and I was able to reduce alot of rotating mass. Gears are locked, so now I can use the ESC as the brake.
One of the two speeds had to go. With a locked transmission, of course you can't have both, so I eliminated the first (bottom) gear. The third gear is pinned to the shaft, and the second (where the one-way bearing was) spins freely, so I pinned the second and the third together. (these pins are already on the second gear, they are the pegs that the centrifugal shifter caught on)
I drilled two holes in the top gear, to line up with the pins from the middle gear.
The tie-wraps only hold the gears together, the pins control the torque twist.....
Notice how the pins are pressed down into the other gear...
Parts and rotating mass removed from transmission...
**Not recommended for the nitro guys, if I had to say that**
Not tested yet, still moving the ESC down to where the brake servo was.
Not weighed yet.
I did swap in the center differential while I had it apart.
What do you think? What did you figure out on yours?
Search around in here and you'll find a way to lock the tranny in 2nd gear using bolts that has held up great for me and others. You should put these details in a build thread specific to your car so others don't get confused about this build. Thanks for contributing though.
As promised here are the pictures of my LCG battery holder and single gear tranny:
At this point I'm using the shorter suspension arms and chassis. My RTR weight is 5lbs 10ounces. These are preliminary pictures before I do more testing. With this set up I was able to do wheelies, which is a first w/ a 540 sized motor.
I had the chance to try out a few changes at the track. I was there about 3 hours. Unfortunately the track was changed up to be much more challenging and b/c it was new there was hardly any grip. So it was hard to do an apples to apples comparison. Here is what I tested:
1. The single gear tranny worked out great. This time around I ran with the center diff but no slipper. Not having a slipper did not pose any problems and the diff worked just as nicely as before. Even with the extra muddy track, the exposed gear had no issues. I'm now using 32p gears which work great and are quieter than mod 1 but I don't like the smaller set screw. I'm really happy this mod worked out, I was worried the way I mounted the spur would come loose.
2. I'm back to the old slayer width and wheelbase to be ROAR legal. The truck handled great and I didn't notice any added difficulty. But keep in mind I reduced the weight by 1/2lbs to end up at 5.5lbs rtr.
3. The low CG battery in the back worked awesome. It was even better than my previous design b/c it was centered and doesn't contact the ground. I was concerned w/ the added weight to the back would reduce the steering but I didn't have any unwanted effects.
4. I didn't use the cc 1406, instead I used the raiden 550 4700kv outrunner. I could not believe how fast that motor is, it has to be more than 4700kv! I mounted a fan next to the motor b/c it was warmer than normal out and I was able to keep the temps around 120. The only issue I had was spinning the center shaft b/c the set screw wouldn't hold. I think I have a fix for this. The other issue I had was w/ the ezrun 60a esc I had been using. I would just cut out after 7 or so mins and flash a green light. I switched the esc off/on and it would be good for 5 more mins. I added a fan to the esc but that didn't help and the temps never got over 110. I couldn't find what a flashing green light means on an ezrun in the directions. But I'm going to run an RX8 next time just to see if it's a current draw issue.
Next time around I hope to have the outrunner worked out and I'm sure the track will have more traction by then.
I read through and am going to do this to my slayer pro. Do you guys feel after this is done that the pro can be raced with the SC 4wd trucks or is it not worth even trying?
I have an extra Xcelorin 6.5t motor and esc that could maybe be used in my truck, running 2s 40c 5000mah lipos. Thoughts on that?
I want a 4wd SC truck that I can race. Unfor. there is no class around local for it. It's either convert the pro or buy a 4wd SC. I would really like to use what I already have to save money. Seeing as how the slayer handles so dang well, I would think that doing this would be a great racing platform.
One of you mentioned the track width. Did you say that the Pro will not be legal racing against other 4wd SC electrics?
hey mulepic I have read this thread over and over and I am amazed at all the progress you have done, I think you did a **** of a job! I was thinking of converting mine and was just going to go with the tkr 1/8 kit, I was tired of rolling my slayer, yeah nitro is fast but it rolled way too easy, but 120 seemed high I looked around and found this thread, I began converting my slayer to brushless, I used the traxxas velineon vxl-3s system. I use 2s though. I made a Mulepic motor mount! =) and you are right it brings the motor as low as possible lcg! my LHS didn't have a 40 spur so i used a 50 with a 19t pinion, it's really fast specially when 2nd kicks in. I will be making a one gear tranny like you did, locking second, any tips? what do you think on the gear ratio?, I want to be fast and not to worried on top speed as the track I take it to only has one straigh away about 35-40 feet long, I went with the titanium push rods and aluminum steering links, your delrin ones look awesome btw. I can't find the nylon shocks though just the gtr teflon coated. I was also worried on the weight of the slayer but the velineon seems fine with it, no wheelies but pretty fast thanks for all the help, u have inspired many people, I'm one for sure. thanks
From my other build http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...-310mm-x-330mm where I'm making a 1/8th buggy I made some discoveries that I'm bring over to this build. The tranny is still single gear but it's a much simpler and stronger design. I also found a suspension tune that makes the car much more stable. I will be testing both of these changes on this build on Friday. After that I will add photos and details of how it works out.
hey mulepic, thanks for all the help, I just ordered the shock plastic bodies,I'll be working on my e-slayer and will post pics of progress as soon as I can, thanks again! btw your 1/8 buggy looks really cool, the spoiler does seem a little far back.... but not bad, seeing on how u build things I'm sure you already fixed that, it's really nice though!
The stability of my slayer has improved dramatically as a result of a rear sway bar and some setup changes. The car's weight has also gone up quite a bit. I enjoy driving this thing much more now and I do not have to tip toe around the turns anymore. It's still a little unstable w/ landing off camber from a jump so that's my next focus on my setup. So here it is:
-Front and rear camber: -4 degress. It seems like a lot but it keeps the most supportive part of the wheel on the ground when corninging hard.
-Front and rear ride height: 3/4". It's low but it's where the suspenion arms are level. This is measured w/o the body or battery.
-RTR weight: 6lbs 11 ounces it got heavier,
-Front/Rear roll center: upper
-Light sway bar in the rear (it's actually homemade) see my thread on traction rolling for an explanation. No front sway bar
-Bump steer/Reactive toe angle: mid
-Front Shocks: 1.6 springs, 20wt AE oil, variable damping top, 4 hole 1.1mm piston (I'm not sure the variable damping does anything)
-Rear shocks: 1.4 springs, 20wt AE oil, no variable damping, 4 hole 1.0mm piston
-Diff oil: front 10k, center 50k, rear 30k traxxas oil
-54T spur, 10T pinion
-cc 1410 3800kv motor. I miss the 1406 but I just can't find a mod 1 pinion smaller than 9t, let me know if you know of one.
-AKA SS enduro on traxxas rims w/ the foam they come with.
-Shortened front pushrods: 2.89" eye to eye (stock is 3.2"). This might also be the key to preventing traction rolling, stay tuned.
I just realized I still need to post a picture of my latest single gear tranny. It's the same as my 1/8th buggy slayer.
Last edited by mulepic; 05-31-2011 at 06:54 PM.
In spite of my inactivety here I have been spending a lot of time w/ the modest e-slayer. Last night I was at the track for a few hours. I have been learning 'how to' tune shocks vs. 'copying' someone's setup. The cars performance has improved dramatically. So much so that it is actually handling better than my 1/8th buggy slayer build.
The past few days I've been thinking about changing factories. With all the talk going on about AE's and Losi's 4x4 SC I thought the slayer just could never compete. I was starting to eye the other cars. Well last night one of the factory (not traxxas) sponsered drivers took an interest in the modest e-slayer and how stable it appeared. He said he wanted to drive it. It was towards the end of my battery but I handed him the controller anyway.
I had never seen my slayer handle so well. This guy finessed the slayer around the track with such ease I was amazed. He doubled rollers I didn't even think were possible to do w/ my motor. Turns were traversed w/ blazing speed. Quickly the thoughts of switching from traxxas vanished from my mind. The slayer can compete!
It's not the car holding anyone back it's the setup. I'll post my setup here later. The rear shock oil seemed a litle heavy b/c it was bouncing off it's tires. FYI, you need heavy springs!
If you are interesting in learning about how to setup suspensions and how I figured out how to make the slayer perform see this. It's a bit lengthy but if you get through it you will not be unsatisfied: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ber-links.html
Here's an updated shot of the LCG slayer. It handles great. It has a single skid plate the runs the length of the chassis. The battery is mounted to this skid plate. The motor is mounted to the tranny mount but hangs down below the chassis. I can actually balance the car on its side. I'm using the BFG S1 tires that do well but I think I like the slayer tire tread in S1 better. I have the kumho tires in S1 showing up soon to try those too.
i was thinking what a tekno slayer pro conversion would be like, i like nitro but im having issues with it. is it worth the wait for charging. i would put the veoline motor int oh i just relised that this thread is 09 oh well
hey that car is sweet it just poped up as i posted my reply i really like it great job man, what conversion is that i reckon the way that motor is mounted is better tan a teckno mod
I think the conversion is well worth it. With a nice charger you can charge some batteries in 15 minutes or less, so it's not much of a wait.
I think the conversion is well worth it. With a nice charger you can charge some batteries in 15 minutes or less, so it's not much of a wait.
hey thanks man. do you like your tires? i have heard proline trenchers are really worth the money, i fond the bfg's to be a little slidey on the track.
The traxxas S1 tires are great. Between the BFG's S1 and the standard tread S1 I prefer the standard tread. The kuhmo S1 tires show up Monday. I'm looking forward to trying those. But hands down, the S1 tires are the best bang for the buck.
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