Im new to the forum but not to the sport. Been lingering around lately and I have become STOKED about the newly released Slash, wonderful product!
So I bought one...she'll be here Monday
Ok, everyone knows and is completely aware that the Titan is a wimp, "...and remember, I'm saying with all do repect" -Ricky Bobby.
It'll do for a short while even with 8.4v or the cancer giving 9.6v but lets face it, they will be hitting the tracks faster than [use your own catchy phrase ].
The spec class will be to die for! Although, upgrading the stocked brushed motor with a better Spec brushed motor, I believe, will really get your motor goin' - no punn intended. Here are my reasons:
A - Its faster/stronger
B - Its CHEAP
C - They are reddily available
D - A simple install
E - Last Longer
F - Rebuildable
G - More efficient
H - Will work with stock configuration
Im not saying that if you are currently stock, leave it on the shelf. Im simply here to gather the forum members opinions on witch Spec class motors would best fit its duties.
I do believe Trinity makes a whopping 10 choices of 19t Spec motors for us as well as many other manufaturers...Prices range from $29.99-$57.99
Honestly, I say all that to ask this: In your opinion, what would be the best Spec class (doesnt have to be 19t) motor that would add proven gains in performance, longevity and reliabilty with out breaking the bank? Your feedback will be appreciated by many!
p.s. If you would like to catagorize motors such as: locked timing, bearings/bushings, # of turns/magnets or even can-size be my guest...
Last edited by redmann11; 06-12-2008 at 04:12 PM. Reason: title change...
...I cant seem to dig up any of the spec for the Titan ie: rpms, torque,watts & efficiency.
If we could figure these simple #'s, it would be an easy choice for the best motor swap.
I'm wondering how much better this would be: http://www.teamtrinity.com/shop/item.asp?item=TRI12002?
The Titan 12 does a good job in the Slash. Its Cheap to replace if necessary.
Faster and Stronger does not necessarily make better SPEC Class Racing. Slower and closer puts more focus on driving skill development.
If your interested in the lap times for the Slash Vs other Electric Vehicles. Here is how they compare on one of our local mega (about 1200 feet per lap)tracks.
Electric 4wd Buggy (mod motor)
46 second lap times
Electric 2wd Truck (mod Motor)
50 second lap times
Electric 2wd Buggy (mod motor)
48 second lap times
Slash (Titan 12 motor)
57 second laps
Nitro 4wd 1/8th Buggy
40 second laps
Great job Traxxas!
Good info! I do agree with you concerning faster and stronger doesnt necessarily make a better spec class. Truthfully im more concerned with the truck possibly not being capable of running speeds necessary to make a particular double/triple. At some of our tracks, it might not be a possablity to redesign the layout to conform to the Slashs needs...
Also, if by purchasing an alternative motor that is a as closely priced as possible to the replacement price of the Titan and does no better performance wise, then it would make more since to stick with the Titan and keep'm stock...
Anyone tried a quality stock 540 motor or any other brushed motor for that matter?
Simply, since basically everyone runs 7c packs, throwing an additional $35 for a better motor, and actually being more content with its performance just makes more logic to me than $180 LiPo/BL per cost/performance.
Last edited by redmann11; 06-12-2008 at 06:17 PM.
Seven seconds behind the "slowest" of those vehicles still seems like a lot of time, even if the Slash doesn't have a mod motor. I'd imagine the Slash might step up its game once a mod motor is dropped in.
Traxxas: Stampede, E Maxx
Seven seconds is quite a bit. But, if they are running in they're own class it wouldnt be as obvious. I think its incapabilities to maybe not complete an entire section would be what shines through.
In stock form, the class will be GREAT, but if by adding a motor in wich everyone can afford, and if performs as hoped for, all in one class...would be a much more amazing sight
A rebuildable spec motor will be faster and more consistent than the titan. By being able to rebuild you will always be able to get peak performance, where as the titan is past its peak after a few runs.
I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.
Correct. Im assuming you mean the 19t spec, or the stock 27t spec? They surprising had close #'s
I'm going to throw my vote in for a Team Checkpoint Money 19 turn spec motor. I've got one in my old Losi JRX-2 Pro SE that I'll likely toss in my Slash for a pack or two just for giggles and grins, once my local HTU gets their shipment of slashes in. it'll only rev to 22K rpm, but it has torque that is taking a very large step into full blown mod motor territory, which means it can really sustain that RPM (one of the BIG reasons that the Mamba Competition X package will just about allways be outgunned by the Mamba Competition package, no matter how many cells of lipoly you have). I would try to work in a cheap plug for the Graupner Speed 600 7.2V BB special, but as far as I know that isn't rebuildable and I've only seen one place that sells them, and that's hobby lobby. I would say just about any 19t "super stock" class motor would be good for a spec class, or a particularly hot 27t stock motor. a bunch of Slashes running Align 600XL outrunner-in-a-cans on a 2s lipoly, geared as high as the motor will allow without becoming a cylindrical charcoal grill, would be interesting, but not that cost effective, as that would just about require the purchase of either a VXL, Mamba Maxx, or Sidewinder speed control, a quality Lipo pack, and a lipo charger setup, and that all adds up quickly
GOT MY SLASH AND BEATING THE LIVING POO OUT OF IT!
You can look at it a couple of ways. If a spec class is created around the stock titan, the seasoned racers will be buying multiple titans to keep the performance at it's best. I'd say going with a aftermarket spec class motor that is rebuildable would be more cost effective and keep the price of racing down over all. Instead of chucking another titan in when the performance drops off, you can just change brushes out and make sure the comm is clean. a 19t spec motor could pick up the pace over the titan, but on 6 cells I wouldn't think that it would be a night and day difference either. Over the long haul yes, but new titan vs a new 19t spec motor would not be a huge lap time reducer. It would be more consistant though.
Keep in mind there is more to getting around the track than speed. Skill and timing play big into it. Chassis setup too. If you got speed but can't get the power down due to a one tire fire coming from the open diff, you aren't going to make the double or triple jump. Getting the diff semi locked up with heavy grease will help in not loosing power to the inside tire that unloads in a turn and spins like crazy. If you can carry more speed through the corner, you'll have more speed to the next jump.
Besides if it's a spec class and everybody is running the same motor (titan or other) the things that are going to make a difference are driver skill and tuning of the chassis. Focus on what you can change to improve the handling and getting the power down and it could be the difference to getting on the podium at the end of the A-main.
do you have a Titan 12t because you have not experienced after only 10 runs on a 7 cell it starts to slow down I measured mine on my rusty and it did you 34.3 out of the box and after 10 runs it went 19.8 something wrong hereOriginally Posted by JDCrow
I just noticed another thing wrong with your chart how can a 4wd buggy go faster than a 2wd buggy
Easy to replace, bull would you rather have a motor that blows out every 10 runs and drop 25 bucks on or would you like a mod motor where you have to buy new brushed every 40 runs
7 seconds is ALOT when you are racing
get your ideas strait
Last edited by dblom11; 06-13-2008 at 11:50 AM.
if you can control it, it is too slow
4WD buggies are faster because they can run hotter motors and still put the power down without losing traction. 2WD buggies and trucks have much more trouble getting the holeshot out of a corner.
Also, with proper maintenance a Titan will last much longer than 10 runs. Spray the motor out with electric motor cleaner and lube the bushings, or at the very least use compressed air after each race. I'm not saying that rebuildable spec-19t motors wouldn't be a good choice for racing, just that some of the points you are trying to make are too generalized.
Most tracks are trying to make the Slash Spec class as close to out-of-the-box as possible so that people new to the hobby can get going for cheap. Some tracks are discussing a second Slash class that would allow more mods. I personally think that the 10.5 & 13.5 turn brushless ROAR Super Stock class motors and LiPo batteries would make for a great race class. A Novak SS Pro 10.5 with a GTB ESC and the ProTek 4000 LiPo would be relatively inexpensive.
Slash,#3905 E-Maxx,Rustler,Stampede,9 more
they really don't last longer than 10 runs when you are trying to race them or bash real hard with them they are horrible motors
if you can control it, it is too slow
My Titan in my slash is DEAD after 6 packs, Thats garbage, I went and got something different to play with, If and when we run a spec class I will ask for other motor opitons. I don't care to ever buy another titan.
10 runs might be a little on the low end for a titan. Go look on the rustler forum there are a few that have hundreds of runs on the stock titan (one motor, not multiples). Granted getting a hundred runs out of a titan is rare too. My experience with titans is mixed. A decent stocker that is way better than the junk stock 540 motors typically used with the older Tamyia stuff I used to run. Titan's will run close to 40 on 8 cells in a rusty, but won't do it for lots of runs. I've replaced two titans, both due to death by dirt. Running them in really soft powedery dirt allowed the fan inside the motor to blow the dirt down into the can. Now that's the way the air is supposed to flow and then out through the pinion end and the cooling slots in the trans case. However the dirt gets caught and packs up eventually causing the motor to stop completely. They can work again if you clean them out, but niether had the same power as before. One of those failed due to dirt after a cleaning the day before and only running two packs back to back in the soft stuff. After that I spent $35 and bought a Speed Gem pro 17t.
If titan's are the spec for your track I suggest a cleaning at least every other run. If it's dusty then maybe after every run.
If you don't use the Titan's you should do a hand out class so racer's don't have to buy a $1000 worth of support equipment just to keep up with the guy that already has it. Think about it. A nice comm lathe with diamond bit and all associated batt's and or power supplies. You've got people zapping this and degausing that. Some go so far as to refrigerate their motors before a run to get more performance. And then you've got the guy with 6 motors and a dyno bench testing after every run to find the hottest motor for the day. It would be easier to designate a few guys every week to rebuild all of the motors and charge a non profit fee for the hand out. That's the only fair way to do it and still keep the Slash spec class attractive to the newcomers unless you limit it to the Titan's. It doesn't cost nearly as much to just replace them once a month or even twice a month. Just my opinion.
P.S. I'm talking about running short courses as this is what the truck was made for. Low fast jumps where you can keep the throttle open and just drive. Not too much strain on the Titan. If you plan on running this truck on 1/8 type tracks, I would recommend going straight to something like the Castle Sidewinder. $135 for everything you need to make this truck ballistic.
Good luck on building a spec class. We are well on our way and have the perfect track to do it on, a converted oval, just like the some of the full scale tracks.
Part of your problem with burning up 12T motors is the voltage your running with 7 cells. And could be linked to maintenance or abusive gearing. Are you cleaning/cutting the comms to keep them fresh?Originally Posted by dblom11
The stats I listed are from races I ran as Race Director and classes I run. Not my ideas, actual lap times from the track. They are posted to illustrate the relative speed of a stock Slash on the same track as other types of racing vehicles.
Last edited by JDCrow; 06-13-2008 at 04:26 PM.
Ok, so in all reality...say your runnning a stock spec class at your local track, right? Everything is fine and the raceing couldn't get any more fun.
Either after or the around the 3rd day of racing, not to mention the extra bashes that will happen, motors start to fade and or die...
At this point you have seen what your vehicles are capable of and more than likely wanting a little more isnt going to be so much to ask for. Assuming your shop has a decent selection of spec 19t's or stockers, second guessing the decission to replace the Titan with a little more power and more reliable/cheaper repairs will probably be not so difficult.
Now atleast one person is running a higher quality power plant and sooner than expected everyone will want to have a piece...
The question is, what motors be the perfect replacement? Maybe someone can chime in on their experience with a motor upgrade, preferably outside of Mods...
If you want to stay with brushes, go with the Checkpoint Money motor with the Infinity(long run) brushes. They can go months without a rebuild and maintain lots of power. Their endbell design is leaps and bounds above anyone else.
But I think the only way to go if you are on a budget is to go brushless with the sidewinder. Yes it's $135 instead of $50 like the Money motor but we are talking zero rebuilding and no hassles. Just plug it in and run for a year or more. Plus you will have more power than any brushed motor truck on the track.
Big Money motor eh? Will check out fo sho Thanks Vic
Yeah, brushless is 'almost perfect' but I was just trying to keep the truck mild.
The fact that anyone can slap on BL technology is no thang. Just trying to keep the class close"r" to stock.
In my eyes, switching to a stock motor is a stock class, going BL is deff modified...
That Money motor is looking mighty fine...love the endbell design. Wish they posted some #'s