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  1. #1
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    brushless system and wheel/tire questions

    Ok i just got a summit and tinkered with it some just messing around with rocker arms suspension tires etc... Now that i know where i want to head with it i need some advice. I want to get a brushless system and install rok lox tires. Ill start with the brushless questions.
    1. Which system is good for speed and crawling? Ive read it should be sensored if u want to do crawlimg. But i was looking at mm2 (which ive seen ppl saying to steer clear of that). Also ive read the tekin rx8/2000kv is the best for both worlds. But if i didnt want to spend that much what is my best option? Ive seen the castle creations sidewinder/2200 for $187. But i havent heard anyone using that.
    1A. What kind of speed can i expect from a summit with a brushless system. Just rough estimate... And do i need to change my gearing? Any suggestions for what pinion and spur size to use? I wana keep the crawling ability but also be able to do a decent speed on the straights.
    2. I want to get the rc4wd rok lox but axial doesnt make the narrow wheel rockster anymore. So what is my best option for wheels in the 100-150 $ range? I like the axial 8hole 40 series wheel but hear it rubs. Would using a hub nut between the knuckle and back of the wheel as a spacer and maybe turing down the inside diameter of the beadlock ring get rid of rubbing issue?
    3. If i.upgrade to these big wheels whatelse do i need to upgrade: do i really need to upgrade servos? I know nothing about servos so if u could give me a specific servo torque value i need or better yet the exact part number of what is a goodservo to buy that would b awesome.

    Sorry for all the questions but any advice or info anybody has is greatly apreciated. Thank you

  2. #2
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    I'm no expert at this man but I'll tell u like this I have the castle creations 2200kv brushless motor with mamba Monster 2 and it crawls very good and bashes really good but it's up to u I run jumbo Kong tires and 40 series mud slingers also the 2200kv brushless motor turns these 8 and a half inch Monster kongs like they r 2.2 mudslingers
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-02-2014 at 06:52 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billgates1234 View Post
    I'm no expert at this man but I'll tell u like this I have the castle creations 2200kv brushless motor with mamba Monster 2 and it crawls very good and bashes really good but it's up to u I run jumbo Kong tires and 40 series mud slingers also the 2200kv brushless motor turns these 8 and a half inch Monster kongs like they r 2.2 mudslingers
    Do u have an idea on what the top speed is with your brushless system? What batteries do you use and what run times you get? Ive been weary of the mm2 because i heard low speed is jerky. Although i dont really do slow slow crawling id like to if i wanted. The other question i have about the castle esc's is do you have to buy the castle link thing to program everything or does it come with a default setting that you can use right out of the box? Sorry for these questions but i am new to brushless and just trying to figure out what i want to do. Ive also been looking at a 150amp/2200kv setup which is cheaper than the mm2 and ive seen decent reviews. I really dont do slow crawling but i like doing med speed hill climbs. If i am not doing technical type rock climbing would the coggy-ness of the brushless system even bother me? I wonder if i would even notice it.

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    ksb51rl
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 09-02-2014 at 11:50 PM.

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    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5SKifnBRWw watch this. This is my truck get the video close to the end all them and you'll see me get down on it to. It's really fast

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    my top speed around 40 mph it's really how u gear if u gear it low don't go fast u gear high u faster. The 2200kv Castle creations motor an mamba Monster 2 is waterproof and it is alil jerky but u hardly notice it I crawl with it mud ride with it and it does amazing I'm not to sure don't hold me to it I don't believe the tekin rx8/2000kv is waterproof at least the esc isn't I don't think. But trust me man mamba Monster 2 crawls good no problems just watch my YouTube videos you'll see me climbing a hill slow and the motor stock with setting u don't have get the Castle link but if I was u I would get it to if u get this setup like I have u can do all kinds of stuff when u get the castle link but like i said I run 40 series mud slingers and theh 7.5inchs tall and I can be on pavement from dead stop it can burn all 4tires no problems in rocks and sand boy that thing does some spinning I run lipo 6s I don't u pay 300bucks for the battery's like I have some other kind
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 12:31 AM.

  6. #6
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    I just installed the Sidewinder in my summit this morning (after loving the one in my E-Revo). It has a LOT more power than the stock motor. Previously I couldn't get my Summit to do a wheelie even with the slipper tightened. After installing the Sidewinder, I went to adjust the slipper this morning, and on my first try it flipped on its back! I found mine for $140 online. Best upgrade for the money IMO.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billgates1234 View Post
    my top speed around 40 mph it's really how u gear if u gear it low don't go fast u gear high u faster. The 2200kv Castle creations motor an mamba Monster 2 is waterproof and it is alil jerky but u hardly notice it I crawl with it mud ride with it and it does amazing I'm not to sure don't hold me to it I don't believe the tekin rx8/2000kv is waterproof at least the esc isn't I don't think. But trust me man mamba Monster 2 crawls good no problems just watch my YouTube videos you'll see me climbing a hill slow and the motor stock with setting u don't have get the Castle link but if I was u I would get it to if u get this setup like I have u can do all kinds of stuff when u get the castle link but like i said I run 40 series mud slingers and theh 7.5inchs tall and I can be on pavement from dead stop it can burn all 4tires no problems in rocks and sand boy that thing does some spinning I run lipo 6s I don't u pay 300bucks for the battery's like I have some other kind
    That is fast dude. Right now I only have 2/2S lipos. So I'd be running 4S. But I'm sure that would still be fast. So when I change my gearing what do I need to change? Pinion only or Spur too? WHat would you recommend to use for middle of the road (speed & torque) for gearing?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    I just installed the Sidewinder in my summit this morning (after loving the one in my E-Revo). It has a LOT more power than the stock motor. Previously I couldn't get my Summit to do a wheelie even with the slipper tightened. After installing the Sidewinder, I went to adjust the slipper this morning, and on my first try it flipped on its back! I found mine for $140 online. Best upgrade for the money IMO.
    How do you tighten the clutch? Sorry, like I said this is my first RC. And where did you find the sidewinder for $140? Do you have a link? Do you mean you got the ESC/motor combo for $140 or just the ESC? Is it a lot faster than the stock motor? How does it work in low?

  9. #9
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    I got mine (combo) from Rakuten.com.

    As for the slipper clutch, check the manual. Basically you stick a hex wrench trough the one side of the gear case, and tighten or loosen the nut on the other side. You want the clutch to slip some under hard acceleration/crashes. Tightening it down is more dangerous, but helps your vehicle accelerate more quickly. You want a happy medium.

    I won't be able to try out crawling until tomorrow morning.
    Last edited by Gamsche; 09-03-2014 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #10
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    This is the one I am looking at. Is this what you have? Do you know if it is sensored or sensorless?
    http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...gsReviews=true

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    I got mine (combo) from Rakuten.com.

    As for the slipper clutch, check the manual. Basically you stick a hex wrench trough the one side of the cear case, and tighten or loosen the nut on the other side. You want the clutch to slip some under hard acceleration/crashes. Tightening it down is more dangerous, but helps your vehicle accelerate more quickly. You want a happy medium.

    I won't be able to try out crawling until tomorrow morning.
    But you did tighten yours slightly from what stock was?

  12. #12
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    It is sensorless, but supposedly with the updated firmware, the castle system does pretty well for sensorless. I'll have to try it before I know for sure. That link from horizon is exactly the same thing as I have.

    Both of mine came looser from the factory than is recommended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    I got mine (combo) from Rakuten.com.

    As for the slipper clutch, check the manual. Basically you stick a hex wrench trough the one side of the gear case, and tighten or loosen the nut on the other side. You want the clutch to slip some under hard acceleration/crashes. Tightening it down is more dangerous, but helps your vehicle accelerate more quickly. You want a happy medium.

    I won't be able to try out crawling until tomorrow morning.
    Nice... I found it at Rakuten for $144... Can't hurt to try it out for that... Do you find it a lot faster than the stock motor? I know it won't be as fast as the MM2 but I want speed but still be able to control it. Don't get me wrong the MM2 is a killer system but Id like to be on the wheels more than its roof. Lol.

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    I didn't have the room at home this morning to let it stretch its legs, so I can't answer until I hit the park tomorrow morning. Given how fast it got in the limited space I had at home, I have no doubt it will be faster. For me, the Revo goes too fast on this motor on 2S. So, even though it is geared down 25% (14t vs 18t), the summit at 3/4 the speed will likely be too fast for it's CG/my ability.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    I didn't have the room at home this morning to let it stretch its legs, so I can't answer until I hit the park tomorrow morning. Given how fast it got in the limited space I had at home, I have no doubt it will be faster. For me, the Revo goes too fast on this motor on 2S. So, even though it is geared down 25% (14t vs 18t), the summit at 3/4 the speed will likely be too fast for it's CG/my ability.
    Ok, cool. Well keep me posted on how it goes tomorrow. I want to order it asap but I want to see what you have to say. I know the summit isn't made for this but I just moved the push rods out to the farthest hole, installed P2 Rockers and 90T springs just messing around and it handles really good compared to what it did when I first got it. It won't even roll in hard turns now like it did before. Obviously that will effect its ability to get over large rocks and stuff cause its lower to the ground but I just wanted to see how it would handle.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    I didn't have the room at home this morning to let it stretch its legs, so I can't answer until I hit the park tomorrow morning. Given how fast it got in the limited space I had at home, I have no doubt it will be faster. For me, the Revo goes too fast on this motor on 2S. So, even though it is geared down 25% (14t vs 18t), the summit at 3/4 the speed will likely be too fast for it's CG/my ability.
    One other question I had maybe you can answer. Can you run standard NIMH batteries with this system? The site says min is 2S lipo. Does that mean you have to run atleast 2S lipo or that you have to run atleast 14.4volts? Because my NIMH's are 16.8volts. I have the 2S lipos but just wondering if I can use the others while those are charging.

  17. #17
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    Don't get to crazy gearing up the sidewinder it's only 90 amps.its really intended for a smaller lighter truck
    Mountains cant stop me
    they have tried

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    Don't get to crazy gearing up the sidewinder it's only 90 amps.its really intended for a smaller lighter truck
    How much does the Summit weigh? Castle's website says any truck up to 11 lbs. Summit has to be around that weight right?

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    Closer to 13 without batts.Castle says many things I don't always agree with.But that's just me and my opinion.If you don't gear it too high in pursuit of light speed you should be okay.just monitor temps for a bit to make sure it's not getting too hot.
    Not saying don't get it just want to make sure
    You research what you are trying to achieve and the best way to get there.It is right at the limit of what that system was intended for.Not as much room for error
    Mountains cant stop me
    they have tried

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    Yeh, but he also want to get the rock lox so... I geuss that it will be much heavier than the stok ones.

    I asked Castel support team and they did not recommend on this Esc nor the pro one to (sensored).
    They claim that it too small for the truck.

    Is watterproof is must for you?
    If not You can try hobbywing XERUN 150A combo.
    They have it at 1800 & 2200kv combo and it comes with everything you need (program card, cables, mounting plate for the truck and two pinions 14t and 19t).
    I have it on an old Ofna monster truck and it very nice system.
    For my opinion it is better in some aspects from the castel gear.
    The price is 200$, not so expensive for such a sensored sys.

    P.s. You are planning on buying the SW system over one guy review that run the truck on his back yard?!
    Try to look for extra opinions on that.

    And remember, your truck will only get fatter with every upgrade you will take (wheels, tires, diff cups, shafts...) so you should take it in to account.

    Good luck

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    Yes Castle says 11lbs, but frankly that is to cover their butts. This thing has tons of power, but YES you must monitor your temps. I haven't had any issues on the Revo with this motor, and the gearing is in proportion to the weight differential on the Summit. If you are going to put monster tires on your Summit, and other heavier items, or you want to go wicked fast on 6S, then pony up and buy the MM2. If you are purely about crawling then go sensored (Tekins are nice, but pricey). I do mostly bashing and a little crawling here and there, so the Sidewinder was a good fit for me.

    P.S. Oh, and as Alonjp underhandely pointed out, don't take my word for it...
    Last edited by Gamsche; 09-03-2014 at 02:00 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonjp View Post
    Yeh, but he also want to get the rock lox so... I geuss that it will be much heavier than the stok ones.

    I asked Castel support team and they did not recommend on this Esc nor the pro one to (sensored).
    They claim that it too small for the truck.

    Is watterproof is must for you?
    If not You can try hobbywing XERUN 150A combo.
    They have it at 1800 & 2200kv combo and it comes with everything you need (program card, cables, mounting plate for the truck and two pinions 14t and 19t).
    I have it on an old Ofna monster truck and it very nice system.
    For my opinion it is better in some aspects from the castel gear.
    The price is 200$, not so expensive for such a sensored sys.

    P.s. You are planning on buying the SW system over one guy review that run the truck on his back yard?!
    Try to look for extra opinions on that.

    And remember, your truck will only get fatter with every upgrade you will take (wheels, tires, diff cups, shafts...) so you should take it in to account.

    Good luck
    I wasn't going to base buying it on his opinion I just wanted to hear what he had to say about it. And like I said I am new to this stuff. I do realize the Summit is a larger heavier truck. But I honestly don't really want to spend $300 on the MM2. That seems like the best option or one of the best options but I don't necessarily need the absolute best since I am not racing or doing competitions. I just want a system that is going to be powerful, give me atleast another 15 mph or more and not break or give me all kinds of problems. I was looking at the Chinese ones, But now I have looked at so many different options I can't remember which ones were viable options. If I had to I could hold off on the Rok Lox and keep the stock wheel/trencher X combo I have because those actually work fine. I just liked the oversize look, but... If anyone has experience with a combo that worked good for them and thinks it would work for me, please let me know. I just wanted to spend no more than $200 if possible. And I live in NY so a lot of the year we have snow and if I want to go hill climbing or through rougher terrain it is most likely going be in a ravine or creek area so waterproof is a definite plus. Not that I am going deep sea diving with it but Id like to run thought a little water every once in awhile. I am open to all suggestions.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsche View Post
    Yes Castle says 11lbs, but frankly that is to cover their butts. This thing has tons of power, but YES you must monitor your temps. I haven't had any issues on the Revo with this motor, and the gearing is in proportion to the weight differential on the Summit. If you are going to put monster tires on your Summit, and other heavier items, or you want to go wicked fast on 6S, then pony up and buy the MM2. If you are purely about crawling then go sensored (Tekins are nice, but pricey). I do mostly bashing and a little crawling here and there, so the Sidewinder was a good fit for me.

    P.S. Oh, and as Alonjp underhandely pointed out, don't take my word for it...
    That is what I want to do with the summit. Bash around and do some hill and rock climbing once in awhile. And I will probably only be running 2/2S lipos (5000 mah/25C) and I have 4/7 cell NIMH as backups. I could buy a couple new 2S's if need be too with higher mah rating. do you get more run time with brushless since it is more efficient or less because it is more power?

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    Actually family2003 is right with out battery's it weighs 11pounds and if u want some big tires say about a good 15pounds

  26. #26
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    Brushless are more efficient, so you get better run times (at the same speed). So if you race it around like a bat out, then you get less run time. You should NOT use NIMH on the Sidewinder, use the money you saved buying it to get some more Lipos.

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    ksb51rl
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 09-03-2014 at 10:52 PM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonjp View Post
    Yeh, but he also want to get the rock lox so... I geuss that it will be much heavier than the stok ones.

    I asked Castel support team and they did not recommend on this Esc nor the pro one to (sensored).
    They claim that it too small for the truck.

    Is watterproof is must for you?
    If not You can try hobbywing XERUN 150A combo.
    They have it at 1800 & 2200kv combo and it comes with everything you need (program card, cables, mounting plate for the truck and two pinions 14t and 19t).
    I have it on an old Ofna monster truck and it very nice system.
    For my opinion it is better in some aspects from the castel gear.
    The price is 200$, not so expensive for such a sensored sys.

    P.s. You are planning on buying the SW system over one guy review that run the truck on his back yard?!
    Try to look for extra opinions on that.

    And remember, your truck will only get fatter with every upgrade you will take (wheels, tires, diff cups, shafts...) so you should take it in to account.

    Good luck
    what about this? the one for $136 (for someone wanting to run 4S)... any comments?
    http://kershawdesigns.com/BrushlessM...stems-Gen2.htm

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    Man trust me if u don't want to spend money u should just stay stock cause when u upgrade to brushless you need new drive shafts new axles and soon u will need a transmission. And u will need new diffs if u r going to go the easy way out and not spend money on a good motor. I'm no expert but. The motor and esc doesn't cost 300bucks u can get them on ebay for 230both and they r new

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    that's fine. I don't mind upgrading stuff a little at a time. I was already planning that anyways. I just didn't think I needed the biggest craziest motor available is all.

    If people think that is the best way to go is get the MM2 then that is their advice. I will consider that. And yea I've just been looking online at hobby shops and didn't even look on ebay. But yea they are 230/240 on there. So I guess that's not so bad. But if there is a system that is just as good just without the castle name then I'll look into that. Just exploring options buddy.
    Last edited by Dadx2mj; 09-03-2014 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Merged

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    Next question is
    If I were to get the MM2 would I want the 2650KV or 2200KV motor (2650 says intended to be used with 4S & 2200 6S, but 4S is sweet spot). Do I understand the KV rating that the lower is more torque and the higher is higher speed or is that backwards or am I misunderstanding it all together? I just want middle of the road. I don't want to do 70 mph in my Summit I just want good semi-manageable speed and also keep my low gear for rougher stuff and climbing.
    Last edited by Dadx2mj; 09-03-2014 at 04:56 PM.

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    That's right lower the kv the more torque. But it's up to u what motor u pick the 2200kv is no where near the baddest motor u still have the 1717 and the beast 2028 that is sure anoff a beast motor family2003 has the 2028 on his with some might as well say 10inchs tall swampers. Family and ttypedan knows tons more about this stuff then I do man I learn everything I know from them 2 guys. If u want to know the right answer them 2guys knows so far 99.9percent of the stuff they told me was right
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 05:24 PM.

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    I still have my stock transmission in mine with the high and low but I don't believe it will last much what you think family2003?
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 05:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billgates1234 View Post
    I still have my stock transmission in mine with the high and low but I don't believe it will last much what you think family2003?
    So what will you have to do to beef up the tranny? In your comment above where you say you still have the high/low... but wont last long.... do you mean you lose the high/low of the summit and have to replace it with a whole new tranny? Or do you just mean that you will have to beef up the parts within the summit tranny but you will still have high low?

    I think I will probably end up going with a 2200kv If I don't have to completely redo parts and can keep the basic setup of the summit and just get stronger parts within it.

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    So I am about to sell my zx6r sport bike in about 10 min. I am using about $500 of that money to put into my summit. I am probably going with the MM2... What would be the smartest thing to buy with the rest of the money? Any advice is appreciated.

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    I would get steel axles and drive shafts for sure the plastic drive shafts for the summit was designed for a brushed motor not for brushless. So if I was u I would get steel axles and steel drive shafts for sure.. And for for the transmission when mine stops working I'm going to put the revo transmission in my summit I want have low range but the revo transmission mission has low range built in with the transmission from what I been hearing. But from what I hear the revo transmission is tons more stronger then the summit transmission cause it has less parts moving inside the transmission
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 06:12 PM.

  36. #36
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    one of our summits has an e revo tran and its the same case as the summit uses, yes less moving parts but same gears.just less of them.....and only 1 speed.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Billgates1234 View Post
    I would get steel axles and drive shafts for sure the plastic drive shafts for the summit was designed for a brushed motor not for brushless. So if I was u I would get steel axles and steel drive shafts for sure.. And for for the transmission when mine stops working I'm going to put the revo transmission in my summit I want have low range but the revo transmission mission has low range built in with the transmission from what I been hearing. But from what I hear the revo transmission is tons more stronger then the summit transmission cause it has less parts moving inside the transmission

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    Just saying what I heard I did say I'm just saying what I heard. Lol so it has the same parts? Can I put stronger gears in it? And in my opinion thats good only one speed cause when u going slow u ain't got to worry about putting it in low cause u r in low when u move slow lol but that's just my 2 cents I hear they have plastic gears in in the transmission is it true? If so can I put steel gears in my transmission? Jaman
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 07:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billgates1234 View Post
    I would get steel axles and drive shafts for sure the plastic drive shafts for the summit was designed for a brushed motor not for brushless. So if I was u I would get steel axles and steel drive shafts for sure.. And for for the transmission when mine stops working I'm going to put the revo transmission in my summit I want have low range but the revo transmission mission has low range built in with the transmission from what I been hearing. But from what I hear the revo transmission is tons more stronger then the summit transmission cause it has less parts moving inside the transmission
    I have actually read that the people using steel axles and drive shafts with the mamba were having trouble with them so they used the summit ones and solved the problem. Idk if they meant they were using steel for a specific truck like the emaxx or something then switched to the steel ones for the summit or if they meant stock summit parts. But this is one of the replys. Ive heard (see below). Also I heard the summit shocks are better than the big bores. Seems like a lot of stuff on the summit was beefed up from standard parts. maybe you should wait and see what happens before you spend money on steel ones. Oh wait you did say once the stock ones go you will switch.


    05-15-2012, 12:05 AM
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    Join Date:Nov 2011Location:Western KentuckyPosts:792
    I swapped a guys stock one out this weekend for the traxxas steel ones above in the pic...two laps around the track the front kept popping out so we dropped his suspension still no luck.He ended up breaking the pins on the end of the dog bone. I had a set of the summit axles spare we swapped to them ended up abusing truck rest of the day with no trouble



    ERBE,Losi 8ight,Slash 4X4

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  39. #39
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    314
    Trust me dude use steel so what u found one post. I have broken 2 plastic ones in like 2days I broke 2 brushless steel axles in 3days I run steel axles no problem that's not true . besides that was 3 years ago things change be twin twin thier and now running steel axles will be fine sense Jaman said that I will keep my stock summit transmission and put steel gears in it if I can
    Last edited by Billgates1234; 09-03-2014 at 07:29 PM.

  40. #40
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    314
    I was talking about the transmission not the axles r drive shafts I have order new and stronger axels I only have 2 wheel drive in my summit cause my 2 front steel brushless axles broke because of the brushless power u will regret keeping the plastic axles I promise u that and I'm not even a expert at this stuff watch what I tell u

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