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  1. #1
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    Finally Gave My Summit Some Much Needed TLC!

    So I don't know if anyone remembers me but a couple weeks ago I started a thread showing you guys how "RIT" dying my chassis black came out. What happened was I tore it down almost 4 months ago to dye everything and then just lost interest as I purchased a RC8T kit to build. Well it took a lot of remembering how everything went and all in all the whole thing was a success. Last weekend I charged up my stock NiMh's fully, took it out to my back yard to run it for the first time in month and got literally a little over a minute of run time out of it. My stock battery's were past their usable lifespan. So now I was faced with a decision.

    I went to my LHS and contemplated the Mamba Monster 2. I just about pulled the trigger as it seems like such a cool upgrade but then I got to thinking. Out of the box the Summit it near perfect! I have submerged it fully just like a boat in my pool and in lakes many times without a single hiccup. In my opinion the Titan 775 has plenty of power for this application and this vehicles intentions.

    Believe me I am not knocking Castle and it surely is not a financial or budget issue. I just don't understand why? They make a brushless E-Revo for that, why would you want to deviate from the Summit's nearly flawless out of the box capabilities. I know for a fact that the Mamba Monster 2 can not be any more reliable as far as water and elements go, than stock. Then you have to try and eliminate cogging from that brushless motor. The Summit's drivetrain is not meant to handle that kind of power, and being geared as low as it is, it would just become impractical and unreliable. If I want to go fast, I will just take my XO-1 out!

    I ended up going with a modest 2 cell setup. I purchased 2 Venom LiPo 3800 MAH 25c 2 cell hard case packs and could not be happier. I am getting around 45 minutes of run time and I feel like my Summit has regained all the power it had on the first couple charges of the NiMh packs! But I did run into one problem...



    There are three factors that come into play when twisting up a driveshaft like this. Throttle control/hard bashing, Slipper too tight and LiPo power! So needless to say I ended up going back to my LHS and purchased and installed these baby's!



    Now I know that a modification like this can hurt more than it helps. Something else will break as a result IE differentials. But I have adjusted my slipper properly now so I am confident I made the right choice with these. I like to mod my Summit tastefully and try not to deviate from it's original design and purpose too much. I use all Traxxas parts because they always fit like a glove and I am really happy with how it is turning out! Thanks guys for listening!

    Here is the link to my "RIT" Dye results- http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...d-of-My-Summit!

    This is the internet and I am a firm believer in pictures or it didn't happen
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 09-09-2013 at 11:55 PM. Reason: this is the Traxxas forum

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    The center shafts work great less joints in them and for our application they seem plenty strong.stock a great truck add a dewalt and its even better.
    In my opinion of course
    I have a tekin rx8 I put in once in a while,crawls flawlessly but the power is hard on the truck.
    Fun, but not truck friendly



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  3. #3
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    jrollin324 - Cut a piece of old splined drive shaft and slide it into that hollow place, It will never twist like that again.

    The Summit's drivetrain is not meant to handle that kind of power, and being geared as low as it is, it would just become impractical and unreliable.
    jamann - if power of rx8 is hard on summit it is hard on e-revo too. That trucks are virtually identical.

    Only difference in summit and e-revo drivetrain is in axles. Summits are stronger :-). Trany is the same(all parts are the same except output shaft+gear, but no one ever broke that), differential are exactly the same. Locking part does not make summit diff any weaker than diff on e-revo. It uses exactly same parts inside. And spur and pinion gearing is up to you. I like bashing my summit more than crawling. Why should I replace it with erevo when only difference is the motor and tires.
    Last edited by Marek_K; 09-10-2013 at 04:59 AM.

  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Finally Gave My Summit Some Much Needed TLC!

    Edited to remove my snarky reply
    Summit is bigger heavier has more travel it can break parts.




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    Last edited by jamann; 09-10-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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  5. #5
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    OK, but more travel will not break anything in your drive train. Summit chassis is exactly the same as ERBE so its not any bigger. It just have taller wheels an body. And its not much heavier than ERBE either. Just 3 micro servos, few small gears in trany and exocage. You change weight more significantly with your tire and lipo choice. Put summit and ERBE with same tires on scale and differnece will be few 100g at most.

    I do not know whether we are talking about same thing. A lot of people around here are telling dont go brushless with summit, cos it will break so much more than ERBE. Its just not true. What is true, is that summit will more likely break with brushless power opposed to the stock titan. But so will break ERBE. Brushless summit will not break because it is different than e-revo. What break things is finger on your throttle(jumping and landing with full throttle, full throttle after reverse without stopping,..) combined with to tight slipper and bad luck sometimes. But than it does not matter whether you have BL summit or ERBE. Only thing that is really different are half shafts . ERBE cardan half shafts will break easier than summit CV shafts.

    Anyway, nice bucket of broken diffs.
    Last edited by Marek_K; 09-10-2013 at 10:27 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrollin324 View Post
    Believe me I am not knocking Castle and it surely is not a financial or budget issue. I just don't understand why? They make a brushless E-Revo for that, why would you want to deviate from the Summit's nearly flawless out of the box capabilities. I know for a fact that the Mamba Monster 2 can not be any more reliable as far as water and elements go, than stock. Then you have to try and eliminate cogging from that brushless motor. The Summit's drivetrain is not meant to handle that kind of power, and being geared as low as it is, it would just become impractical and unreliable. If I want to go fast, I will just take my XO-1 out!

    Because not everyone has an extra $1000 laying around to buy an e-revo or XO-1 in addition to a Summit. I love my Sensored BL upgrade and have not broken a single drive train item yet. I love that my Summit can crawl with the best then go fast when needed.
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 09-10-2013 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marek_K View Post
    OK, but more travel will not break anything in your drive train. Summit chassis is exactly the same as ERBE so its not any bigger. It just have taller wheels an body. And its not much heavier than ERBE either. Just 3 micro servos, few small gears in trany and exocage. You change weight more significantly with your tire and lipo choice. Put summit and ERBE with same tires on scale and differnece will be few 100g at most.

    I do not know whether we are talking about same thing. A lot of people around here are telling dont go brushless with summit, cos it will break so much more than ERBE. Its just not true. What is true, is that summit will more likely break with brushless power opposed to the stock titan. But so will break ERBE. Brushless summit will not break because it is different than e-revo. What break things is finger on your throttle(jumping and landing with full throttle, full throttle after reverse without stopping,..) combined with to tight slipper and bad luck sometimes. But than it does not matter whether you have BL summit or ERBE. Only thing that is really different are half shafts . ERBE cardan half shafts will break easier than summit CV shafts.

    Anyway, nice bucket of broken diffs.

    both vhelicals diffs use most of the same parts but the summit's diff are that much more diffrent then the revo's(look at the exploded views)
    the summit diff has three bearings supporting the diff its self vs the revo with two bearings
    and the bulk heads ,diffriential cases and diff cups are diffrent to adding more weight plus the locking plate that locks the diff

    and the transmission's are the same way to althought they look the same the internals are diffrent.......................

    it needs to be known
    Last edited by reod12x2; 09-10-2013 at 06:43 PM.
    summit /mustang /stampede-2s spc lipo

  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Trans is the same. The summit has the two speed kit installed.
    I didn't say don't do it,just be prepared to replace parts SOONER as they will wear much faster the extra travel is hard on axles as in joints wear and break sooner.i started out my brushless fun with the best of intentions.....
    The power ! corrupts the best of intentions. Lol next thing you know. Lol



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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    Trans is the same. The summit has the two speed kit installed.
    I didn't say don't do it,just be prepared to replace parts SOONER as they will wear much faster the extra travel is hard on axles as in joints wear and break sooner.i started out my brushless fun with the best of intentions.....
    The power ! corrupts the best of intentions. Lol next thing you know. Lol
    About the long travel... I mostly bash at high speed, and crawl when I find a challenge. I go through a lot less cross pins when the pushrods are not on the highest setting. At the lowest setting, the cross pin wear is minimal. I go through more Traxxas bearings than cross pins.
    Brushless 19/62 SPC 8.2 It's not a Tekin or a MM

  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    I went to sealed ceramics for inner and outer wheel bearings and pinion bearings.much better and much longer life.


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  11. #11
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    @mrhammer2u

    I was just stating my opinion. I went that route with my slash. I dumped a bunch of money into it converting it to brushless, ran LiPo's and geared it all different ways. I just saw the car as lacking a direction. It ended up being a small short course truck that was insanely overpowered and handled poorly with wheel weights on the front just to keep it from constantly flipping. In my opinion if you invest all of that money into a vehicle that has a chassis suitable for the all of that power and proper aerodynamics, it is no longer a jack of all trades master of none, but a properly built vehicle
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 09-11-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  12. #12
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    @reod12x2
    I know well what is different. IMO , as the spider gear inside diff, ring and pinion gear are the same and the whole diff is supported by 3 bearings, especially that big one, I dare to say summit diff is less prone to fail as far as pinion vs ring gear wear goes. And I have read lot about shimming the diff pinion in MERV. I dont know how it is on MERV but pinion on summit has lot of play(you can slide it in and out inside bearings), but once the input shaft is bolted to it, it has virtually zero play. And shimming would make it to tight, at least on mine.

    @jrollin324
    But we are talking here about MERV and summit and they use the same chassis. Only thing different are long rockers on summit, but that is in no way affecting its capability of handling the brushless power. I do not know what slash you tried to convert and what motor you put in, but brushless slash I drove handled the power well.
    Last edited by Marek_K; 09-11-2013 at 01:12 AM.

  13. #13
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    Marek yes they use the same chassis and some other things, but the transmission is a two speed, and well as the differentials are able to lock, which is not available on the Merv. They are different and thats all there is to it! Two different models with different capabilities....End of story.
    Endeavoring to persevere !

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    I went to sealed ceramics for inner and outer wheel bearings and pinion bearings.much better and much longer life.


    Sent using lipo power
    Have not gone to the sealed ceramics as of yet, but do have the green sealed ones all around on both my summits.
    Boca bearings make taking care of your truck a whole lot simpler, yes they are not cheap but well worth the money in my book, especially if you run yours in harsh environments all the time. Meaning sand, mud, muddy water and water. Muddy water is a lot harder on the trucks than people realize as the water suspens the grit and helps it to get into places it would not otherwise get to.
    Endeavoring to persevere !

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marek_K View Post
    @reod12x2
    I know well what is different. IMO , as the spider gear inside diff, ring and pinion gear are the same and the whole diff is supported by 3 bearings, especially that big one, I dare to say summit diff is less prone to fail as far as pinion vs ring gear wear goes. And I have read lot about shimming the diff pinion in MERV. I dont know how it is on MERV but pinion on summit has lot of play(you can slide it in and out inside bearings), but once the input shaft is bolted to it, it has virtually zero play. And shimming would make it to tight, at least on mine.
    sorry i should have quoted your first post about the drive train
    im not saying enthing on shiming. its just the minor diffrences between the diff's and transmission that the summit and revo
    have
    end.
    summit /mustang /stampede-2s spc lipo

  16. #16
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    @Marek K

    The Summit and the Brush-less E-Revo, although sharing the same chassis platform are different in many ways. Ultimately to convert a Summit to a E-Revo you will need to do the following.

    Mamba Monster Motor and ESC- $300
    E-Revo Cantilevers- $10
    E-Revo Wheels and Tires- $80
    E-Revo Transmission $50
    Pinion and Spur Gears- $10

    These are the main items that you would do to have your summit perform identical to a Brush-less E-Revo. The Axles, differentials, bumpers, body posts and body are all different as well. However i will not include those things because if you leave the differentials on the Summit open it is essentially the same as an E-Revo.

    So now just to have your Summit perform as good as an ERBE, you are into it for at least $450. An average going price for a Summit new is $600 and for an ERBE $700. If you purchase your Summit for $600 and invest another $450 into it to perform like an E-Revo, your at $1,050. For another $250 you could have bought a Summit AND an E-Revo Brush-less edition. Chances are the extra $250 is not going to dent anyone in this hobbies' wallet too much lol. Now you have 2 vehicles that both perform as how they were designed. One dedicated for crawling and low speed bashing and one for high speed.

    As for my Slash, I had a SVT Raptor that i put a simple Velineon 3500kv Brushless VXL-3S System in. Ran it on 3s LiPo and it was insane. I will say though i could have run it on 2s and it would have been more tame so it was definitely my fault. I am just used to the handling of the XO-1. Once you drive one at high speed, it sucks having to go back to a vehicle that has a constant tendency to flip once you hit 60 mph.

    Everyone has their own opinion and way of going about things though. I am not judging anyone or their decisions, i am just stating my own. Many people convert their summit to brush-less. Notice how i said "their". If you are happy with it, that is all that matters

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