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  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Research-Test-Race. New build!

    Hello everyone
    So last summer I had a build thread called " kdvanbs slash build"
    This is also a build thread.. But completely different

    What I've been mainly doing is trying to get my truck as powerful as possible
    What I've realised is power isn't always great
    Not without control

    That is the purpose of this build; I want control
    I've also decided that I want to make this a race deticated truck

    Here is how I'm planning it
    Research; get as much knowledge as I need
    Test; test out what I'd like and see what works
    Race; step explains itself

    Now you also thinking I'm using the same slash
    Well.. Yes.. And No
    Somewhere in between the 2 steps test, and race, I will purchase a brand new slash dedicated for racing

    So my current slash will still have its build thread
    In this thread it is just used as an example

    I will be racing on a indoor carpet track that has medium sized jumps
    So let's start!
    I want to start of with shock oils
    What's the effect of higher and lower weights?
    Shocks are the things that confuse me most in this hobby
    Last edited by kdvanb; 06-30-2013 at 09:59 PM.
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    well you talk about wanting handling. so the first steps in my mind are lcg and good shocks along with right tires.

    lcg pretty much is a must in most cases now days. but as far as the right shocks and tires go we need some answers to a few questions.

    what kind of track will you be setting up for?

    circle track left turn only?
    a track that turns both ways but still no jumps?
    or a track with a range of jump sizes?

    what kind of surface are you running on? clay, pavement, blue groove? ect ect.......
    there's no life like a LOW LIFE!
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  3. #3
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08kgraves View Post
    well you talk about wanting handling. so the first steps in my mind are lcg and good shocks along with right tires.

    lcg pretty much is a must in most cases now days. but as far as the right shocks and tires go we need some answers to a few questions.

    what kind of track will you be setting up for?

    circle track left turn only?
    a track that turns both ways but still no jumps?
    or a track with a range of jump sizes?

    what kind of surface are you running on? clay, pavement, blue groove? ect ect.......
    I don't think you saw my edit
    All the answers are there

    I need a lot of help with the shocks set up
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    ahh i did not see the edit lol. so is this an indoor carpet track that only turns one way? and define medium size jump please. because all the indoor carpet tracks ive seen actually had quit small jumps that would not require much special. any way to get a pic of the track?
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  5. #5
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08kgraves View Post
    ahh i did not see the edit lol. so is this an indoor carpet track that only turns one way? and define medium size jump please. because all the indoor carpet tracks ive seen actually had quit small jumps that would not require much special. any way to get a pic of the track?

    Here's their website

    www.hotrodhobbies.ca

    There are some pictures there I believe
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    ok so most are small with some medium size jumps. not sure that any are really big enough to need a duel rate shock like the prolines. but did you have an idea of what shock you wanted to run?
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  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08kgraves View Post
    ok so most are small with some medium size jumps. not sure that any are really big enough to need a duel rate shock like the prolines. but did you have an idea of what shock you wanted to run?
    I'm thinking proline powerstrokes or traxxas gtr's
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  8. #8
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    Definitely lcg on this track, in terms of tires just ask all the people with the fast trucks. Since the jumps are not too huge, I would run the shocks stiff like 60wt oil. Also HR front sway bar, I had problems with the HR rear sway bar restricting up travel so I would just run front.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    if your willing to fund for either i would say get the powerstrokes for the fact that they are duel rate. then i would say buy the spring tuning kit for them. i would try running the second softest spring of the long ones and then a middle or just on the stiff side of the small spring. the small spring is primary that takes up all the smaller bumps first. then the bigger ones kick in when you start flying through the air more.

    i would probably start out with 35w oil in rear and 40w oil in front.
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  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Sean-why do you say really stiff?
    08- why 35 rear and 40 front?
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  11. #11
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    To keep the body roll to a minimum, keep it in a straight line, and those combined give you overall better control.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  12. #12
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    To keep the body roll to a minimum, keep it in a straight line, and those combined give you overall better control.
    Wouldn't that be more stiffer springs?
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    Wouldn't that be more stiffer springs?
    The combination is the best, but I dont know what shocks you are getting so I can't really recommend springs at the moment. But using my friends 4x4 on his track even 50wt seems a little soft to me with jumps a little bigger then the track you are going to run on, and he is running losi xxx springs on ultra shocks btw
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  14. #14
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    The combination is the best, but I dont know what shocks you are getting so I can't really recommend springs at the moment. But using my friends 4x4 on his track even 50wt seems a little soft to me with jumps a little bigger then the track you are going to run on, and he is running losi xxx springs on ultra shocks btw
    Okay
    I will be getting a set of tires and some shock oil very soon
    The shocks might come after I get the new slash!
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  15. #15
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    heavy oil isnt a good idea in my opinion due to the jumps not being to big. and thats just a starting point. and i also am going to recomend against the sway bars on a 2wd. the reason being that the body roll will play to advantage. as you corner you want the weight transfer so you can put the power down better. and with only 2wd if you try and keep it flat then your more likely to just spin out by not allowing the weight transfer.
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  16. #16
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    Very cool track though, wish the only track within an hour of me didn't have jumps six feet tall.

    Quote Originally Posted by 08kgraves View Post
    heavy oil isnt a good idea in my opinion due to the jumps not being to big. and thats just a starting point. and i also am going to recomend against the sway bars on a 2wd. the reason being that the body roll will play to advantage. as you corner you want the weight transfer so you can put the power down better. and with only 2wd if you try and keep it flat then your more likely to just spin out by not allowing the weight transfer.
    That is why I only recommended front sway bars, so the rear can still transfer. I used to run it that way on my 2wd before I sold it and it worked well
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: merge
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08kgraves View Post
    heavy oil isnt a good idea in my opinion due to the jumps not being to big. and thats just a starting point. and i also am going to recomend against the sway bars on a 2wd. the reason being that the body roll will play to advantage. as you corner you want the weight transfer so you can put the power down better. and with only 2wd if you try and keep it flat then your more likely to just spin out by not allowing the weight transfer.
    It makes sense
    So I want a good amount of weight transfer?
    I guess I don't want too much or else my back wheel will lift and I lose control?

    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    That is why I only recommended front sway bars, so the rear can still transfer. I used to run it that way on my 2wd before I sold it and it worked well
    Wouldn't you have to even it out in the rear?
    Because carpet is a really high traction surface
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: merge
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    It makes sense
    So I want a good amount of weight transfer?
    I guess I don't want too much or else my back wheel will lift and I lose control?
    Lose lots of speed and possibly flip, whether you use oil, springs, or sway bars in the front to limit it just make sure you get just the right amount of body roll, but it will take LOTS of testing to acomplish this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    Wouldn't you have to even it out in the rear?
    Because carpet is a really high traction surface
    I kept the sway bars off in the back because it limited up travel AND the rear wheel on the inside would lift up very high.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: merge
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  19. #19
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    Lose lots of speed and possibly flip, whether you use oil, springs, or sway bars in the front to limit it just make sure you get just the right amount of body roll, but it will take LOTS of testing to acomplish this.
    I just really need a basic guideline
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  20. #20
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    Also see how many degrees of camber the faster trucks are running. Honestly I would just ask around the track and then go from there. The best guidelines for me is just to learn from the best.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. 08kgraves's Avatar
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    keep it simple and start without a sway bar. if you find you want or need to add one later then do it. but ive never neede a sway bar on an rc, just my .02

    to start out for camber since your turning both ways i would run about -1 in the rear on both sides and -2 in the fronts. this will allow the car to plant more rubber in the corners
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:14 PM. Reason: merge
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  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Okay
    I think that's enough for handling for tonight

    Let's go easy!
    What motor and esc set up should I run?
    Bieng a small track I probably want around 4000kv
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  23. #23
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    Just make sure to run the truck on the track before buying parts, I've never run on carpet so I would note the handling characteristics of the truck and then go from there. And if you do end up with sway bars start with the softest one because if you go too stiff lots of pushing will occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    Okay
    I think that's enough for handling for tonight

    Let's go easy!
    What motor and esc set up should I run?
    Bieng a small track I probably want around 4000kv
    Oops posted before I saw this, 4000 sounds good, I would probably go with the castle sidewinder esc do to the bang for the $
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:14 PM. Reason: merge
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  24. #24
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    Just make sure to run the truck on the track before buying parts, I've never run on carpet so I would note the handling characteristics of the truck and then go from there. And if you do end up with sway bars start with the softest one because if you go too stiff lots of pushing will occur.
    I know
    I need new shocks and oils and stuff anyways
    That's what this thread is about!
    Research testing and racing!
    Tomorrow I might go to the LHS
    So we will see what I buy

    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    Oops posted before I saw this, 4000 sounds good, I would probably go with the castle sidewinder esc do to the bang for the $
    I have two castle mmp already so I can go with that and a 3800 right off the bat and it won't cost any $$
    Im thinking a tekin set up or something
    I just don't know what esc to use
    Last edited by cooleocool; 07-01-2013 at 05:15 PM. Reason: merge
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    I have two castle mmp already so I can go with that and a 3800 right off the bat and it won't cost any $$
    Im thinking a tekin set up or something
    I just don't know what esc to use
    I'm running the ET-3s, but the bullets are smaller then normal castle motors so that wouldn't work unless you want to sauter.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  26. #26
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    I'm running the ET-3s, but the bullets are smaller then normal castle motors so that wouldn't work unless you want to sauter.
    I've heard something about having problems if not running the tqi with it..
    I plan on running a different radio..
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  27. #27
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    I think you are fine as long as you are not running the TQ, if you are running the TQ then you have to turn off the castle link, diggerpede is the go to guy for the ET-3s.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    I think you are fine as long as you are not running the TQ, if you are running the TQ then you have to turn off the castle link, diggerpede is the go to guy for the ET-3s.
    Okay
    Well anyways I don't need another mmp or rebranded mmp
    If I get a new system it's gotta be different
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdvanb View Post
    Okay
    Well anyways I don't need another mmp or rebranded mmp
    If I get a new system it's gotta be different
    I would either use the mmp or something like a tacon, hobbywing, or tekin.
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  30. #30
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    I would either use the mmp or something like a tacon, hobbywing, or tekin.
    I'm not sure what sensored esc to go with
    I'm thinking tekin
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  31. #31
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    Dual rate shocks are a gimmick and should be avoided at all costs. There is nothing a PowerStroke will do that any other option won't do for less money. In racing, you want to minimize weight at every opportunity. You'll not find a lighter (or cheaper) shock than a Traxxas Ultra-- you can get a complete set of four, with springs and everything, for about $10. For the cost of one set of Powerstrokes and the requisite two spring kits, you could buy five full sets of Ultras (20 shocks!) a pair of every rate of Losi XXX spring for front and rear, and at least a dozen bottles of shock oil.

    Suspension setup is the most labor and time intensive part of building a vehicle. The "raw" setup takes 10% of the time and does 90% of the job. That last 10% of the tune-- what makes the difference between middle of the pack and the front of the pack, takes 90% of the time. Trying to do it with one set of shocks is just a chore. If you have the time-- and if you don't have the time, make the time-- to read the thread on RCTech (in Off-Road Electric) titled "Tuning with Camber Links." Fred Swain breaks down the hands-down best method for setting up a baseline suspension tune-- starting with empty shocks and choosing springs based on a static drop test, and going through oil selection with drive tests. It's time consuming. When I build a new chassis, suspension setup takes ~4 hours, just fiddling with shock setup.

    Don't mess with swaybars. Swaybars are a tuning aid, and you need to have a suspension is completely sorted, or you won't be able to tell if the truck needs them or not. Nine times out of ten when someone has installed swaybars on their truck, you could disconnect them without their knowledge and they would run the same lap times, or faster.

  32. #32
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. billy-bones's Avatar
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    I bought one of these but havent got a chance to try it yet.
    I have been running it's sister the mmp-sct,but if it works as they say it will indeed give you the best of both worlds by starting sensored and switching to non sensored at top speeds.
    This would give you all your power and the smooth sensored motor.
    One of these days I will give it a try.
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  33. #33
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Dr. Isotope
    What about using strc shock bodys, strc caps and TiNi shafts?
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  34. #34
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    The STRC bodes and caps are very nice-- but by the time you price them together (about $56) you could have a set of Traxxas Big Bores with money left over, or about 4 sets of Ultras.

    You don't need all aluminum or fancy shiny bits. Don't count on aluminum parts to make you durable so much as relying on your driving to keep it wheels side down. I'd much rather have a couple complete sets of Ultras that I can pre-build for changing track conditions rather than one set of really shiny ones I'd need to tear apart all the time.

  35. #35
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    So your saying I'll have some problems with the strc bodys and caps?
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  36. #36
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    Not at all. What I'm saying is you'll spend $50+ on four bodies and four caps, when that money could buy you 8-10 pairs of Losi springs instead. Ultras are perfectly competent shocks for racing (they are the lightest shocks you can run) and they're so cheap they're almost disposable-- a complete shock is about $2.75. If I'm standing in front of a race track and I have the choice between 4 pretty aluminum bodies and four pretty aluminum caps or 20 complete Ultra shocks for the same money, I take the Ultras.

    Other people may think differently, but I believe the moment you start worrying about "pretty" on a race vehicle, you've stopped racing.

  37. #37
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Okay
    Well I think I might go with the strc shocks as I feel like they would perform better on my truck then I can get the ultra shocks to. I'm looking for an upgrade either way
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  38. #38
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Just was playing around today with the slash
    I made a oval track in my gravel driveway
    Didn't flip once

    Then I went and drove it on the road
    I wouldn't flip if I went like half speed

    I guess I should tell you guys what I'm running in this slash

    Electronics:
    Savox SC1258TG servo
    Velineon brushless system
    Traxxas tq2.4
    Glitchbuster

    Tires: today I ran streetfighters up front and stock bfgoodrich tires on the rear

    I had no preload up front and 1 large spacer in the rear
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

  39. #39
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    How much sag were you getting?
    Slash 4x4 LCG, Rusty VXL(not runnin), and my bike.

  40. #40
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. kdvanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean1214 View Post
    How much sag were you getting?
    I'd say my skid plates were and inch and a quarter from the ground
    Slash 2wd, Slash 4x4, 30th digger, Rustler VXL

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