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  1. #1
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    Question Sensored BL motor suggestions for Summit with MMP?

    Looking for a sensored brushless motor around 2100kV (1900 to 2300 range) to connect to my MMP and put into one of my Summits. I've searched eBay and Tower and a few other places. Most of them seem to list the motors as 17.5T, but I've seen 2100kV as 15.5T, 17.5T and even 21.5T. I was surprised to see a lot of motors in this kV range that are 540 sized. I don't imagine a 540 size motor would be strong enough to power a Summit.

    I'm trying not to break the bank, so to speak, but want to find a beefy motor!

    Thinking I'll probably sell one of my EVX2 ESC's to try and offset the cost. I have one with LVD and one older without. Probably want to sell the older one...
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  2. #2
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    Also, regarding wire... I posted in another thread about having probably 6 feet each of three colors of 10 - 12 gauge stranded wire, but with thick strands, so not very flexible. The electrical engineer I work with confirmed that will work just fine, as long as it's got a good solder joint. People on the forum have recommended the flexible silicone fine-stranded wire more common in RC's. I just think it's bogus to pay $10 or $15 for 3 or 6 or 10 feet of two strands of wire!

    As far as a good solder joint, I now have a 45-watt iron and a dual-power 150/220w gun, so should be covered there. Maybe need a soldering heat sink, too...

    Any reason you couldn't use car speaker/power wire or something like that? Is the insulation too thin on that?

    If anyone could post links or PM me about motors or wire that'd be great.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  3. #3
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    Another random question - can the circuit board of a sensored motor be waterproofed like an ESC, with potting epoxy or Corrosion X, etc.?
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  4. #4
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    Great questions.

    The 540 cans will get very hot under normal conditions with the Summit, I recommend a proper 1/8 size motor.

    As for the wires, yes 10-12 gauge is just fine for these trucks, the only difference between wet-noodle wire and same gauge speaker wire is the amount of cores you get, the more cores the better, and the more flexible.. the better. Proper solder joint is of course important too.

    For waterproofing the sensor port on the motor - it's not that difficult. There are just a few hall-effect sensors in there soldered to a round pcb with a connector on the end. You can cover that whole board in a thin layer of liquid electric tape (no need for lots, just seal it) and for the connector you can use lithium grease or something similar to prevent any mineral build ups on the connector. Problem solved with "non" waterproof sensored motors! =)

    Also because there are no solid rules for what makes a 2100kv motor at 17.5t vs a 2100kv motor at 19t you really just need to look at their performance numbers - power, efficiency, sizes etc... and always just go with the KV rating. That way you can best decide how fast you'll be able to go since 1000kv generally equals 1000rpm at 1v, as 2000kv is 2000rpm at 1v and so on!

    *cheers

  5. #5
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    Thanks, krallopian...

    It just seems a lot harder than I expected to find a good price on a sensored 1/8 motor... but it may be a case of you get what you pay for.

    Looking at maybe going with the Hobbywing XERUN 4274SD 2200kV motor. There are still a few 2000kV models for sale, but they're discontinued, replaced by the 2200kV. Not sure why, but I'd rather buy the newer model. There's also a Tacon 2250kV for $10 - 20 less, but it's only rated for 4S max, where the HW is rated for 6S.

    The Tekin T8's are quite a bit more expensive and they're only rated for 4S unless I drop the kV lower than I want to (< 1900kV).

    Decisions, decisions!
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  6. #6
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    Do you really want to run 6S in a Summit though? It destroy E-Revo diffs bad enough let alone having the technical parts of a Summit Locker Diff
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoelRobbo View Post
    Do you really want to run 6S in a Summit though? It destroy E-Revo diffs bad enough let alone having the technical parts of a Summit Locker Diff
    To be honest, I'll probably never run 6S in anything...

    Maybe I just have this wrong idea that a motor "capable" of 6S will still be better even when running at 4S if it's the same kV rating. To this point my largest BL motor is the CC 1410 3800kV 5mm shaft motor that came with my MMP SCT combo. And I've never run a sensored motor.

    Maybe the $85 Tacon motor will work just as well as the $160 Tekin motor or the $185 Novak Ballistic motor...

    But your point is well said, I'll probably only run it on my SPC 2S 8200mAh in series for 4S voltage.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  8. #8
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    I have the 2250 T8 and love it. I find when I buy cheap I always feel like im missing something....even though im probably not. better to skimp on motor than esc....if u need to skimp.

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    I have and do run a xerun 2200 its got lots of power on 4s.More than enough power to break stuff if you are reckless,
    I am at times, reckless so I don't run it full time.lol
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    I have and do run a xerun 2200 its got lots of power on 4s.More than enough power to break stuff if you are reckless,
    I am at times, reckless so I don't run it full time.lol
    Sounds like how I drive! It won't be BL all the time. I'll have three DeWalt motors to swap in/out of it too (12, 14.4, & 18V).
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  11. #11
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    I run the dewalt 14.4 most of the time
    Fall and winter where I am gets pretty wet.


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  12. #12
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    Another difference between other wire and RC wire... the jacket.
    RC wire jackets are rated for 200... I have used fine strand speaker wire in a pinch and I had to solder quick with an ice cold cloth near by to cool down the jacket quick to keep it from melting off.

    The more flexible the wire, the less likely it is to break off the solder tab or break the solder tab off.
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  13. #13
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    Found a great place to buy the right kind of wire... Robotmarketplace.com

    They have good prices on all sizes of flexible wire.

    Funny thing is they also sell DeWalt motors and the old style like I have are almost twice as much as the new style.

    For me, it looks like it would be almost more work than its worth to try and modify them to fit...

    Also thinking I might return my big 150/220w solder gun (unused) to Radio Shack and buy an adjustable soldering station.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  14. #14
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    Here is another place to get wire:
    http://www.buddyrc.com/accessory/silicone-wires.html
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  15. #15
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    Thanks, Jimmie. Looks like an interesting site.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlorinTharkun View Post
    Looking for a sensored brushless motor around 2100kV (1900 to 2300 range) to connect to my MMP and put into one of my Summits. I've searched eBay and Tower and a few other places. Most of them seem to list the motors as 17.5T, but I've seen 2100kV as 15.5T, 17.5T and even 21.5T. I was surprised to see a lot of motors in this kV range that are 540 sized. I don't imagine a 540 size motor would be strong enough to power a Summit.

    I'm trying not to break the bank, so to speak, but want to find a beefy motor!

    Thinking I'll probably sell one of my EVX2 ESC's to try and offset the cost. I have one with LVD and one older without. Probably want to sell the older one...
    4s BL is plenty in a Summit. I have an rx8 with a 4038 2000kV T8 on 4s. Geared 20/68 on Big Joes it does 39 mph on GPS. 40 seems like nothing in most bashers but in a Summit it is plenty fast because it's so big. (mentally picture a 15lb bowling ball thrown out a car window at 40 mph) Tekin doesn't recommend 6s on a 2250kV cuz it puts the rpms close to its limit as they actually underate the kv. It will still run on 6s just fine for the short times your summit will actually hold together under that much power. Also if you are planning on running 6s then it seems that you just want to bash it and throw in your dewalt's for crawling. If that is the case then a sensorless motor would be fine if you are looking to save cash.

    OK I just woke up and am still groggy... lol I was thinking mmm not mmp... oops. You might want to read this about the mmp...
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...errerid=145077
    Last edited by MagicDragon; 04-13-2013 at 09:15 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicDragon View Post
    I386

    4s BL is plenty in a Summit. I have an rx8 with a 4038 2000kV T8 on 4s. Geared 20/68 on Big Joes it does 39 mph on GPS. 40 seems like nothing in most bashers but in a Summit it is plenty fast because it's so big. (mentally picture a 15lb bowling ball thrown out a car window at 40 mph) Tekin doesn't recommend 6s on a 2250kV cuz it puts the rpms close to its limit as they actually underate the kv. It will still run on 6s just fine for the short times your summit will actually hold together under that much power. Also if you are planning on running 6s then it seems that you just want to bash it and throw in your dewalt's for crawling. If that is the case then a sensorless motor would be fine if you are looking to save cash.

    OK I just woke up and am still groggy... lol I was thinking mmm not mmp... oops. You might want to read this about the mmp...
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...errerid=145077
    Thanks for the link on what people _think_ the MMP can do on a Summit. The point is there are at least a couple people who have been running a sensored BL on a MMP for quite some time. Also, I already own an MMP.

    After reading people's feedback and other threads I am sure I'll never run it above 4S.

    I think the BL setup is going to have to wait a bit, though... My wife reminded me the 1:1 Suburban needs $500 in repairs and our house's water heater is slowly dying.

    I'll probably focus on getting the 14.4V DeWalt rewired first... and maybe try the DeWalt on the EVX2 and the MMP and see how they compare.

    It seems like its always a question of $. Not to mention fixing the 4 things that broke on my 2Pede this morning...
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    I ran the MMP and dewalt for a winter with a outerwears cover did great.
    It did just stop working one day I am not sure it likes the summit a whole bunch it's pretty big and heavy.it did pretty good sensored with a sensored 2000 kv on 4s.i have a rx8 now.its perfectly smooth it costs more but performs flawlessly
    It really is more suited to the summits size in my opinion


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  19. #19
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    Before the MMP stopped working, was there any signs of trouble? Was it running hot, was the fan ever on? Did it ever get wet..

  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krallopian View Post
    Before the MMP stopped working, was there any signs of trouble? Was it running hot, was the fan ever on? Did it ever get wet..
    No warning signs at all not over geared was being conservative.didnt get wet that I know of
    Fan just cycled at startup and rarely got hot enough to trigger the fan,could just be unlucky
    Slight missing magic smoke smell but it never smoked.my offshore esc on the other hand when it went, blood red smoke and lots of it
    It took out a batt as well.
    Pics caps look ok

    This on the other hand looks suspicious
    Last edited by jamann; 04-13-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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  21. #21
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    What a darned shame!! The damage is under the heatsink, no doubt one of the fets blew out. This is the first time I've heard of one blowing on a Summit so it has me concerned. Without taking over the thread, could you let me know what gearing you had, and how long you ran it like that?

    I covered mine with liquid electric tape, and the fan never turns on when I power it up. I've never once seen it run actually, but I've heard it doesn't turn on until it's quite warm.

  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    I believe it was 12/58 which is pretty much stock ratio.Just rotates the motor more to the center and a bit lower in the chassis.i did run 14/58 off and on but that is still pretty mild gearing.i work mine pretty hard so it may have been
    My doing.Im not what I would call abusive to the truck.I do a lot of roughish climbing its hard on equipment.ya that's it ya
    I ran like that for quite a while 6+ months or so.on batteries that can't be mentioned here.I use spc now and yes there is a difference the 8200 I have are for sure under rated by a bit.
    I wonder if the cheaper possibly over stated batts may have played a part in the "work stoppage"lol


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    Last edited by jamann; 04-13-2013 at 11:27 PM.
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  23. #23
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    My fan would fire up at arming.
    Then shut off until it got hot enough.
    I think geared right and 4s you should be ok your truck is not going to be light so gearing may be even more critical
    SORRY OP kinda went off course there back on track now.


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  24. #24
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    Jamann and Krall, that kind of info and discussion is EXACTLY what I was looking for when I started this thread. Not thread jacking at all!

    Now I'm just debating whether to just keep the old EVX2 running the DeWalt and save up for the Tekin combo later on down the road. Then I'd still have the MMP to run in one of my 2WD TRX trucks.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    My fan would fire up at arming.
    Then shut off until it got hot enough.
    I think geared right and 4s you should be ok your truck is not going to be light so gearing may be even more critical
    SORRY OP kinda went off course there back on track now.

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    The fan on my MMP has the same pattern - spin for a moment when the ESC is turned on, then fan turns off and only turns back on when the ESC gets hot. I asked Castle tech support about this once and they said that's how it's designed to behave.

  26. #26
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    Wonder if my fan works at all then, hmm.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by krallopian View Post
    Wonder if my fan works at all then, hmm.
    If the fan is broken, it might be worth a few $ to buy a new case for the MMP from Castle:

    http://castlecreations.com/products/...ment_case.html

  28. #28
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    I'm most likely going to buy a whole new MMP, as I've modified mine rather extensively!





    I've rerouted the fan wires to be inside as well, so I'm wondering if either: A wire is binding the fan, or perhaps some liquid electric tape "melted" in to the contacts preventing contact, slim chance though. We'll see.

  29. #29
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    Well, if the MMP is still working, you know the saying... "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

    Bought my wire yesterday from RobotMarketplace... because they had both the fancy, schmancy Dean's "wet noodle" for the 12 gauge AND had good flexible 10 gauge wire. Ordered 3 feet of red, 3 feet of black for each size... should be good for a while now. Once it gets here, I'll at least get the DeWalt 14.4V running again and have 2 working Summits!

    Found another interesting source:

    link

    They have colors of silicone flexible wire that no one else has, if you're willing to pay >$4/ft! If I were making a Chick-a-Pede like Loot did for his lady, it might be worth it... pink and purple 12 ga wire, etc. Slow-loading site, but interesting to check out.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  30. #30
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    Wire came today... the 10 gauge seems huge!





    Going to get a nice soldering station after I sweeten up the wife with knocking out a few things on the "honeydew" list.

    link
    Last edited by OlorinTharkun; 04-18-2013 at 09:28 PM.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  31. #31
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    I can't believe when I started this thread no one mentioned Kershaw Designs! I discovered their website today and they've got big BL motors for good prices... I might just revive my idea of taking the MMP and putting a big BL motor on it. Kershaw has a 2000kV motor for $70. $70 out of pocket to go BL on my Summit compared to >$300... Well that makes me consider taking the risk with the MMP ESC's power handling...

    ... But first I'll still finish requiring the DeWalt and run it. I may at some point compare running it on the MMP vs the EVX2 but that will be a little while.

    I'm just excited to discover the KD website. Some cool stuff!
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  32. #32
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    I bought a sensored brushless for $65 from a company called DuraTrax.. their DTX line - though not 1/8 motors, it was plenty strong for a 1/10 motor.

  33. #33
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    Thanks, Krall. I've seen those motors in a catalog. When I looked again at KD, none of the motors seem to mention being sensored.

    They did have a DeWalt mounting plate, which made me wonder if it could be modified to fit my older style DeWalt...?

    Or maybe KD would make a plate for the motors I have...
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

  34. #34
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    IF I ever decide to go brushless... I have this motor in my wish list:

    Specs:
    Size: 4270
    RPM/v: 1900kv
    Poles: 4
    Sensored: Yes (Standard 6 pin harness)
    Max voltage: 15V (4S)
    Max Current: 120A
    Max Watts: 1800W
    Resistance: 0.012ohm
    Shaft Size: 5mm
    Can Diameter: 42mm
    Can Length: 70mm
    Weight: 329g
    Cost: $52
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  35. #35
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    Well, once I get my 2WD trucks fixed and the DeWalt motor resoldered, I'll probably drive just with the DeWalt for a while. I'm sure eventually I won't be able to resist the lure of brushless, though. I think I'll probably get that 1900kV 1800W motor there, Jimmie... when the time comes.
    What broke, uh, needs upgrading now?

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