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  1. #1
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    ANZA and Proline Chassis

    Anyone racing with a ANZA LCG Chassis or a Proline Pro2 Chassis? If so how do you like it.
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. billy-bones's Avatar
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    Hi Electro,I know a hand full of my racing crew buds who used to run the pl2 chassis,but like most all pro line products,their broke and in the parts box,or not broke and in the parts box,because,In my opinion,pro line is right up there with integrity.
    The only thing i run pro line is there extended control arms.
    And you can bet,as soon as there patent runs out,and rpm makes them,the pl parts box will get bigger.
    I really think they rushed there transmission to the market,because they knew if rpm introduced there new trans cover,with a aluminum plate(much thicker then pl)their trans never stood a chance.
    Know they have made fools of them self's,by putting a interferer product on the market.
    Show me one real racer with a pl trans,that hasn't replaced the idler with a stock or machined aluminum gear,because the original didn't last five real races.
    Even the video a week before its release said,if you get in a bind,the idler gear is the same as the traxxas,for a quick change,if you need it.
    IF! Why not say when.And when you by a soon needed diff kit,why does it come with a another plastic idler?
    In my opinion they dropped the ball a little to far this time.
    Sorry for the speech,its just pro line discuses me.Their ideas are good,their manufacturing couldn't possibly be worse!
    Built Ford Tuff With Chevy Stuff.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy-bones View Post
    Hi Electro,I know a hand full of my racing crew buds who used to run the pl2 chassis,but like most all pro line products,their broke and in the parts box,or not broke and in the parts box,because,In my opinion,pro line is right up there with integrity.
    The only thing i run pro line is there extended control arms.
    And you can bet,as soon as there patent runs out,and rpm makes them,the pl parts box will get bigger.
    I really think they rushed there transmission to the market,because they knew if rpm introduced there new trans cover,with a aluminum plate(much thicker then pl)their trans never stood a chance.
    Know they have made fools of them self's,by putting a interferer product on the market.
    Show me one real racer with a pl trans,that hasn't replaced the idler with a stock or machined aluminum gear,because the original didn't last five real races.
    Even the video a week before its release said,if you get in a bind,the idler gear is the same as the traxxas,for a quick change,if you need it.
    IF! Why not say when.And when you by a soon needed diff kit,why does it come with a another plastic idler?
    In my opinion they dropped the ball a little to far this time.
    Sorry for the speech,its just pro line discuses me.Their ideas are good,their manufacturing couldn't possibly be worse!


    WOW!!! Can see you are not a fan of Proline. I cant say I agree with you as for the most part I have good results with their products.

    Curious, have you bought any Proline parts new or do you get then second hand on ebay after someone has beat on it.

    To say Proline is the same as Integy is a pretty far strech in my opinion. I am unaware of any patent Proline has on extented A Arms. So I doubt that is the reason RPM does not make them. I like RPM parts as well but do give the edge to Proline whend it comes to Parts for Racing.

    How are guys at your track breaking the pro2 chassis. Its Thick Alum. Where is it breaking?

    Dont agree with you about the Proline Trans either. From the testing I have done the Proline idler is abit tougher than a Plastic Traxxas Gear but I do not recommend using either. A Steel or Alum Gear is the way to go. I would like to see a steel gear on a Proline Diff. I think its unfair to say its inferior.

    In regards to showing you a real racer who has not replaced the stock idler gear with a metal one. I am not sure I could as most real racers I know do that modification. Keep in mind when you buy a RPM Tranny you need to buy all the internals. Which is all stock Traxxas stuff.

    I like the new RPM Trans cover and it as some nice features over a stock Traxxas Trans. I am looking forward to running one in one of my race trucks. I will be interesting to compare both Transmissions over a full race season
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. billy-bones's Avatar
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    Hi bud.the only thing i bought second hand from pro line is the suspension kit,and they do indeed have a patent on it.Not sure you noticed but the traxxas has and always had the steel idler gears,in fact all the internal traxxas gears a steel.What I meant was the pl trans has plastic gears, the week they released it, Matt whom I have spoke with personally said if you find yourself in a bind,by losing an idler,their the same as traxxas,so you could use the stock traxxas idler to replace your plastic pro line one
    You think um against pl? you should talk to Dr I,he lives down the street from the factory.He makes me sound like their best consumer.
    I never really owned much integrity stuff,but Ive be told they were once a top notch company like pro line.
    I just ordered another pl suspension kit because they work great,and even thou I broke one,It was very much my fault!Dr Icotope,on the other hand,has broken them and shown pics of holes in the molding casts.
    Their ideas on paper are great in fact the slipper on the trans is a great idea,imo if they took a bit more time on the drawing board,they could have made a great product.
    And those sold for $120 new.
    Yes,the rpm is just the case,but its only $29,and after installing mine yesterday,haven't tried it yet,to darn cold out,the main improvements over the stock are ,being able to remove it with out dismantling the hole rear of the truck(LIKE THE PL)having the aluminum plate for heat dissipation(LIKE THE PL)but the plate is twice as thick on the rpm,and no hole in the case bottom(LIKE THE PL).
    I guess what I'm trying to say ,is once pro line meant quality,now they seem to be riding on their good name and losing QC.
    But how many times over the years have we seen that? while installing my rpm trans case i had to grind some aluminum off the plate for my tekno drive shafts to fit,their not perfect either.
    But i think as you follow the forums,you'll find more and more people down on pl.
    Before i forget,most of are breakage of any kind,is on the very tight short track,throttle up and down,jump land,constantly.
    And its not just pl parts that break,they all fail,pl just seems to lead the pack.
    Built Ford Tuff With Chevy Stuff.

  5. #5
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    Must admit I enjoy your opinions, even though I dont agree with most LOL

    Proline has a Registered Trademark on their porducts. Not the same a patent. Not sure how they could get a exclusive on a A Arm.

    Not all Traxxas trans gears are metal. Traxxas make a plastic idler gear which I believe came in the XL Versions of the Slashes and Rustler. Not sure if that is still the case.

    It is true you can use some Traxxas gears in a Proline Trans. Which I appauld them for designing it to use some readily available parts to repair it.

    While I believe all rc aftermarket manufactures have their highs and lows with QC. I will say when you look at Prolines Parts
    they look to come from Quality Tooling. Being in the Plastic Molding and Tooling Industry for 20 plus years I have some knowledge in that. Course will agree they may have some processing issues sometimes.


    Price wise a Proline and a RPM are the same. Actually Proline is a few bucks cheaper. When you are done buying all the parts to install into a RPM case ( diff, bearings. gears, clutch assembly, etc ) you will be about the same price as a Proline

    Might be you see more failures with Proline Parts as they are the choice of many people who race and run up front.
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. billy-bones's Avatar
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    Not sure i raced reel cars most of my life,I'm a Gm man,but my GM engine always sits in a mustang.I guess it all comes down to what you personally have had the best luck with..Have you noticed the number of people who got slash's for xmas,having rear bearing carriers out off the box?One poor kid got his on xmas eve and came into the lhs with a broken one,then i seen a fireman with the same thing.
    I have watched craftsman tools go from great to poop over the last couple decades.Remember when made in America meant something?The other day i pulled the intake manifold off a Chevy 2003 impala,the original[IMG][/IMG]My last big boy toy 556 inches point block 985 hp to the ground all motor mid 8s all day manifold gaskets were clearly marked made in China.
    Built Ford Tuff With Chevy Stuff.

  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electrocutioneer View Post

    Not all Traxxas trans gears are metal. Traxxas make a plastic idler gear which I believe came in the XL Versions of the Slashes and Rustler. Not sure if that is still the case.
    .
    True. Not all Traxxas gears are steel. Actually, the steel internals are relatively new. They were first included with the VXL models and soon after, the XL-5 models got the same treatment. But before the VXL's came out, the diff and idler were both plastic. Go a little further back and even the top gears were available in plastic, delrin, or brass.

    But I agree with billy 100%. The PL trans is a complete turd! Traxxas wised-up to the fact that the plastic gears (especially idler) were weak and definitely couldn't hold up to the average basher under VXL power. They were also aware of it before brushless technology hit the r/c world and offered part# 1996x, an aluminum idler gear. The aluminum idler was an upgrade for the Magnum trans way back in the brushed motor days because we were killing them back then too. Nowhere near as frequently as the brushless bashers do nowadays, but still.

    With that said, why would PL take a huge leap backwards and release a trans with all plastic gears? It's been common knowledge for years and years that the plastic idlers were fragile, so what made them think theirs would magically work? It all comes down to being a good idea on paper, but a complete failure in the real world.




    Quote Originally Posted by billy-bones View Post
    Have you noticed the number of people who got slash's for xmas,having rear bearing carriers out off the box?One poor kid got his on xmas eve and came into the lhs with a broken one,then i seen a fireman with the same thing.
    .
    You mean like this?



    I bought that Slash back in 2009 (notice the non-LVD esc). Can't really blame that on poor quality parts though. I posted pics of it on this forum when I opened the box. People were telling me to send a pic to Traxxas and they would replace it. True as that may be, why would I do that? Do you really think Traxxas put that truck in the box in that condition? Or was it a defective part? No. That is nothing more than the shipping company kicking the box from Texas to NJ. No need for Traxxas to warranty someone else's mis-handling of a package.




    billy-bones: Is the paint on that Mustang code YC? That teal color that was exclusive to Cobras back in the mid-90's? Reason I ask is because I just got home from giving an estimate to a friend of mine's son to fix the side of a Mustang that looks a lot like yours. Even has a Chevy motor in it. 383 though. Runs low 9's and is street legal. I still say putting it in that engine bay is a waste of a perfectly good motor though.
    Last edited by harry697; 12-30-2012 at 08:27 PM.

  8. #8
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    Almost seems like the broken hub carriers on some of the Slashes is either a bad run of material in the parts or a disgruntled employee who boxes them up at Traxxas. I had three BRAND NEW Trucks with broken hubs. They were that way when the customer took them out of the box. Kinda sucks when you tell someone how durable they are, sell them a truck and when they take it out of box its BROKE!. Fortunately its a not common event and at our store we fix it at no cost and everyone is happy

    Still would say you guys are abit harsh on the Proline Trans LOL. I do agree with you in regards to the metal gears and not sure why they chose to go with a Plastic Idler and Diff. I am suprised we have not destroyed the diff in one of our trucks yet.

    The only reason I think they chose to go with Plastic Gears is to keep the rotating mass down. Its my belief that the main focus of Prolines direction with the Pro2 parts the are making is to give guys who at TRAXXAS Loyal a line of parts to modify their Slashes to run with the SC10s, Losi XXX and now the 22sct ( which compare a 22sct to a Proline Chassis )

    With that in mind one of the goals on "paper" would be to keep it light. Which light often equals parts that break easier. But to race on the indoor and tracks the pros run on the typical winning trucks are lighter. Tear a SC10 or Losi trans apart and you will discover plastic gears. In certain applications Plastic is superior to Alum or Steel.

    When you take a trans that is designed for a lighter truck and put it in a heavier truck like a Slash with a stout brushless setup in it and its a not going to live.

    Thank you for your view points and Billy I DO remember when MADE IN AMERICA meant something fact is I MAKE THINGS IN AMERICA! I also prefer to keep my CHEVY Motor in a CHEVY LOL

    I see it at our tracks alot. We race in dirt that puts alot of load on the drivetrain and stuff get tore up. Dont matter what your running. If you dont maintain and rebuild it every 2 to 3 events chances are your trans is going to break. The SC!0 adn Losi Transmission dont live long. Especially with a ball diff. But take those same trucks and put them on a hard clay track and they live alot longer
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electrocutioneer View Post

    Still would say you guys are abit harsh on the Proline Trans LOL. I do agree with you in regards to the metal gears and not sure why they chose to go with a Plastic Idler and Diff. I am suprised we have not destroyed the diff in one of our trucks yet.

    The only reason I think they chose to go with Plastic Gears is to keep the rotating mass down. Its my belief that the main focus of Prolines direction with the Pro2 parts the are making is to give guys who at TRAXXAS Loyal a line of parts to modify their Slashes to run with the SC10s, Losi XXX and now the 22sct ( which compare a 22sct to a Proline Chassis )

    With that in mind one of the goals on "paper" would be to keep it light. Which light often equals parts that break easier. But to race on the indoor and tracks the pros run on the typical winning trucks are lighter. Tear a SC10 or Losi trans apart and you will discover plastic gears. In certain applications Plastic is superior to Alum or Steel.
    I see your points and agree with the logic. Here's something to take into consideration though. Look at the Losi and AE trans compared to anything available for Traxxas. Their tolerances are much tighter and the gears, even though they're plastic, are much beefier. More surface area between gears will obviously make for a stronger setup. Not to mention that the tolerances help considerably. A Traxxas Magnum trans will take a bit of time and trial and error to really build it correctly. You need to shim it, assemble it, check for play, dis-assemble, re-shim, re-assemble, until you find the happy spot where there is no side play, yet no binding. With my T4 or SC10, I just put it together with no shims and everything fits snug with no binding. All those things add up to a more reliable trans, even when using plastic gears.

    Don't get me wrong. I have replaced two idlers in my SC10 this summer. Don't ask me why, but both times were immediately after installing a Velineon motor. I ran a Novak 7.5, which is way faster than the Velineon, but for whatever reason the Velineon blew my idler within minutes. Exact same thing happened to my buddy with his SC10. He ran a 13.5 for months and the frist day he ran his Velineon, the idler blew. We're now running aluminum idlers by HR and problem solved. But my point is, a Slash with plastic gears wouldn't have the slightest chance of surviving anywhere b=near as long as our SC10's, even with a 13.5 motor.

    My T4 was bought new in 2009 and has been raced regularly on a high-grip surface with a 7.5 Novak and is still on the original gear set. Try that with a plastic-geared Rustler. Better yet, try it with a PL trans for the Rustler.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry697 View Post
    I see your points and agree with the logic. Here's something to take into consideration though. Look at the Losi and AE trans compared to anything available for Traxxas. Their tolerances are much tighter and the gears, even though they're plastic, are much beefier. More surface area between gears will obviously make for a stronger setup. Not to mention that the tolerances help considerably. A Traxxas Magnum trans will take a bit of time and trial and error to really build it correctly. You need to shim it, assemble it, check for play, dis-assemble, re-shim, re-assemble, until you find the happy spot where there is no side play, yet no binding. With my T4 or SC10, I just put it together with no shims and everything fits snug with no binding. All those things add up to a more reliable trans, even when using plastic gears.

    Don't get me wrong. I have replaced two idlers in my SC10 this summer. Don't ask me why, but both times were immediately after installing a Velineon motor. I ran a Novak 7.5, which is way faster than the Velineon, but for whatever reason the Velineon blew my idler within minutes. Exact same thing happened to my buddy with his SC10. He ran a 13.5 for months and the frist day he ran his Velineon, the idler blew. We're now running aluminum idlers by HR and problem solved. But my point is, a Slash with plastic gears wouldn't have the slightest chance of surviving anywhere b=near as long as our SC10's, even with a 13.5 motor.

    My T4 was bought new in 2009 and has been raced regularly on a high-grip surface with a 7.5 Novak and is still on the original gear set. Try that with a plastic-geared Rustler. Better yet, try it with a PL trans for the Rustler.

    I agree with you about AE and Losi having closer tolerance parts. When I used to run buggies I could just about put my Stealth Trans together with my eyes closed and it was always free and smooth. I rarely see a problem with the gear set in
    the AE transmissions but the ball and gear diffs seem to be the weak link with the bigger motors and big pin dirt/sand tires.

    I believe AE and Losi have a different view on their Product than Traxxas. Which for the most part Traxxas is more in line for the new guy or person who enjoys Rc as a hobby whereas the other manufactures focus more on the the racer.

    I also have experinced certain cases where one thing works and another does not, even though it should.

    In regards to Proline I think some guys are beating on them pretty hard. While I tend to give them some credit for bringing parts to market. Seems like alot of guys beat on them for not knowing better. Well they may have made an error. Could be in there controled tests they did not have a issue but like many things when it get in the REAL WORLD there are problems.
    I cut them some slack as they have not been building transmissions for years like the OEMs have. Also lets be real here pitch the plastic gear. Man up and spend 5 or 8 bucks on a metal gear and run it! lol

    We had a issue with the idler gear this summer. Failed in the 2nd or 3rd race weekend. Replaced it with a plastic traxxas idler gear. Thinking a metal gear would tear up the diff. But sadly the Traxxas gear lasted about 2 LAPS! lol after that we installed a alum gear and problem solved. NO Trans issues the rest of the season and compared to our other truck equipped with a prepped traxxas trans it was quicker and fast and a whole lot quicker than the trucks equiped with alum cases, diffs and steel spur gears
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

  11. #11
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electrocutioneer View Post

    We had a issue with the idler gear this summer. Failed in the 2nd or 3rd race weekend. Replaced it with a plastic traxxas idler gear. Thinking a metal gear would tear up the diff. But sadly the Traxxas gear lasted about 2 LAPS! lol after that we installed a alum gear and problem solved. NO Trans issues the rest of the season and compared to our other truck equipped with a prepped traxxas trans it was quicker and fast and a whole lot quicker than the trucks equiped with alum cases, diffs and steel spur gears
    That right there is my biggest issue with PL. I've been using their products, mainly tires, for years and think their stuff is top-notch. But do you honestly think that they could have done any kind of real world testing with their trans and not know that the idler gear was worthless? All it would have taken is for them to run a few packs through their trans and realize that it needed an aluminum or steel idler gear and 95% of the complaints they're receiving would have been eliminated. With the massive volume of failures within the first week of release on this forum alone has me convinced that there was little to no R&D performed with that product before it hit the streets. IMO it was a great product that failed due to blatant laziness. Sure, you can install a $10 aluminum or steel Traxxas gear, but for the $100+ price tag, why should you have to?

    PL even went as far as to design a sealed gear diff. As you already mentioned, ball diffs are pushed to the limits with the new motor/battery technology. Sealed planetary diffs are they way to go nowadays. It just disappoints me that they could recognize that weak point, yet ignore the even weaker link.
    Last edited by harry697; 12-30-2012 at 10:40 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry697 View Post
    That right there is my biggest issue with PL. I've been using their products, mainly tires, for years and think their stuff is top-notch. But do you honestly think that they could have done any kind of real world testing with their trans and not know that the idler gear was worthless? All it would have taken is for them to run a few packs through their trans and realize that it needed an aluminum or steel idler gear and 95% of the complaints they're receiving would have been eliminated. With the massive volume of failures within the first week of release on this forum alone has me convinced that there was little to no R&D performed with that product before it hit the streets. IMO it was a great product that failed due to blatant laziness. Sure, you can install a $10 aluminum or steel Traxxas gear, but for the $100+ price tag, why should you have to?

    I cant give you a accurate answer as to why. Coming from a background of Manufacturing I can say that there are many times when the Prototype parts and assemblies are devoloped and work good, tested and retested. But when it comes time to go to Production problems arise. As thats when the bean counters and people in purchasing start to mess with things. Sometimes trying to save some money with different materials to cut costs. Happens alot in larger companies and Proline has grown. AND I doubt their growth and popularity is not from making junk parts! I do think that if they dont correct the idler issue soon that they should be slapped! lol

    Keep in mind until they came out with their Trans. I dont believe there was many replacement options for a Traxxas other than a Alum case from Fastlane or Integy.

    Also to be fair the new RPM case is nothing more than a Traxxas case that has been altered so you can remove trans without having to tear the whole back of the truck apart ( WHICH I am glad they did ) and also add a alum motor mount. Which I wonder where that idea came from! lol

    I am glad RPM came out with their case as it has value and will be a great updgrade to a stock slash
    Traxxas Slash all others are just Toys lol

  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. billy-bones's Avatar
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    [IMG][/IMG]Darn good eyes,remember this color? It has a GM 383 stroker straight motorlow8s all day,till the day it went boom.
    Quote Originally Posted by harry697 View Post
    True. Not all Traxxas gears are steel. Actually, the steel internals are relatively new. They were first included with the VXL models and soon after, the XL-5 models got the same treatment. But before the VXL's came out, the diff and idler were both plastic. Go a little further back and even the top gears were available in plastic, delrin, or brass.

    But I agree with billy 100%. The PL trans is a complete turd! Traxxas wised-up to the fact that the plastic gears (especially idler) were weak and definitely couldn't hold up to the average basher under VXL power. They were also aware of it before brushless technology hit the r/c world and offered part# 1996x, an aluminum idler gear. The aluminum idler was an upgrade for the Magnum trans way back in the brushed motor days because we were killing them back then too. Nowhere near as frequently as the brushless bashers do nowadays, but still.

    With that said, why would PL take a huge leap backwards and release a trans with all plastic gears? It's been common knowledge for years and years that the plastic idlers were fragile, so what made them think theirs would magically work? It all comes down to being a good idea on paper, but a complete failure in the real world.






    You mean like this?



    I bought that Slash back in 2009 (notice the non-LVD esc). Can't really blame that on poor quality parts though. I posted pics of it on this forum when I opened the box. People were telling me to send a pic to Traxxas and they would replace it. True as that may be, why would I do that? Do you really think Traxxas put that truck in the box in that condition? Or was it a defective part? No. That is nothing more than the shipping company kicking the box from Texas to NJ. No need for Traxxas to warranty someone else's mis-handling of a package.




    billy-bones: Is the paint on that Mustang code YC? That teal color that was exclusive to Cobras back in the mid-90's? Reason I ask is because I just got home from giving an estimate to a friend of mine's son to fix the side of a Mustang that looks a lot like yours. Even has a Chevy motor in it. 383 though. Runs low 9's and is street legal. I still say putting it in that engine bay is a waste of a perfectly good motor though.
    Last edited by billy-bones; 12-30-2012 at 11:44 PM.
    Built Ford Tuff With Chevy Stuff.

  14. #14
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electrocutioneer View Post
    Also to be fair the new RPM case is nothing more than a Traxxas case that has been altered so you can remove trans without having to tear the whole back of the truck apart ( WHICH I am glad they did ) and also add a alum motor mount. Which I wonder where that idea came from! lol
    For me, the biggest advantages to the RPM trans is the ability to adjust toe and squat angles. And obviously the aluminum motor plate is a huge step in the right direction. The ease of removal is nice, but I never really had any complaints about removing the stock trans either.

    I guess you could say that RPM followed PL with the aluminum motor plate, but in reality, they both copied Traxxas. The original Magnum 272 trans had aluminum motor plate and guard, separate arm mounts with "0" toe or "+/-1" degree toe. They also had 1 and 3 degree wedges to adjust the squat angle. All that and a ball diff used to be standard equipment on many Traxxas kits.


  15. #15
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    I have the Proline chassis and its great, the sides are angeled to give it more strength, its a simple peice, I like the velcro straps, I use straps on everything now!

  16. #16
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    Right now I'm in the test and tune phase of an ANZA chassised Slash build and so far the handling has been better, but not as good as I think it should be. Gone is the traction roll (carpet track), but I'm having an issue with body roll and some pushing, but I'm still working on the link and shock locations, along with shock oil viscosity. It'll probably take me a few more weeks to sort it all out. When I'm happy with it, it'll get raced. It also is using a PL Pro-trac a-arms and wheels.
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