Lunsford link diameter recommendation

[Oaks]

Hey guys, I'm really close to pulling the trigger on some Lunsford steering links. They come in 3 mm, 3.5 mm, 4 mm and 5. how do you go about picking the right diameter? I know the length I want to get. Thanks

[Blaster75]

4mm is stock diameter. Having used 5mm on a truggy, it is HUGE, and due to the limited range of movement in the rod ends, only suitable for camber links. I used 4mm for steering, and broke everything on that thing but the links. If you can bend the 4mm stuff, the rest of your truck will be wasted!

[Oaks]

Thanks a lot man. Do the 4 mm links work with stock TRAXXAS ends?

[Dr. Isotope]

Yes. I am however done with Traxxas' captured rod ends. They are restrictive, and lead to broken parts.

I've used (and am still using) 3mm on many vehicles (with appropriate rod end changes) without breakages.

[MidnightPumpkin]

I have used the 3.5 on my pedes, they look a little small, but work great.

[ReaperGN]

I use the 3mm links due to the large number of available ends. I have had no trouble with them. You could spend a little more and get the larger ones but they are unnecessary.

[Oaks]

Thanks Reaper, i need to do a little more research on the ends and then i'll be ready. Depending on the ends' lenghts, I might need to compensate by ordering longer links. I know that my protrac steering links show a bit too much thread for my liking.

[MidnightPumpkin]

Oaks, I always like to have some threads showing, I get more adjustment from them. If the rod end is tight, as was the case with my sterring turnbuckles, there would not be any room for adjustment. I had to use a shorter rod end to eliminate the toe in caused by the 74mm traxxas turnbuckles. Just a thought, I may be overthing the issue

[Oaks]

I hear ya MP, i like a little bit showing myself, just not too much - maybe just an 1/8 or so more depending on the different rod end lengths

[AbSoLooT1]

Im gonna be converting over my ladies truck to 4mm for just the Cambers. I NEVER had an issue on my truck.... But then I ended up upgrading to the DREADEDEND links... before they could cause any problems. Now with the ladies truck, two have been snapped, two bash sessions in a row. I think its cuz of the RPM rod ends, where as the Traxxas ones had more give... With the ladies, Last time a front link alum link was snapped, and now today a rear one broke. Fortuantly it was the very end of a bashing of session...

Im gonna be doing some with short rod ends for front cambers, and some in combo with long rod ends for the rear..

[Oaks]

That's cool Loot, but definitely a bummer about the snapped links. I went thru that mess a while back myself. Im probably going to skip the slayer rods mod only because I like the full adjustability of a link. My master plan is to run a combination of captured ends and studs/ball cups. Ideally, captured on the servo saver, stud on an alum steering knuckle. Captured on the anza's and studs on the tower. Lastly, captured on the rear tower, and studs on the rear carriers.

[DiggerPede]

That's cool Loot, but definitely a bummer about the snapped links. I went thru that mess a while back myself. Im probably going to skip the slayer rods mod only because I like the full adjustability of a link. My master plan is to run a combination of captured ends and studs/ball cups. Ideally, captured on the servo saver, stud on an alum steering knuckle. Captured on the anza's and studs on the tower. Lastly, captured on the rear tower, and studs on the rear carriers.

That's where the Proline Towers and Carriers come into effect. There are other brands of Towers and carriers that offer this to. You set it up how you would normally run, then all you have to do is adjust them from the tower &/ or carrier to give you the adjustment you need. Whether more positive or more negative. Basically saying if you set them in the middle you can adjust them accordingly. the front doesnt give you near as much adjusting without having to adjust the links themselves. It makes it easier in the field by just unboltiing either or both ends to fine tune. That's the way I look at it. Maybe i'm wrong.

[Oaks]

Well, hold on Diggerpede. Maybe you can help me figure this out because I do like the way the slayer mod looks.

I was under the impression that the slayer rods, weren't really adjustable. I was under the impression that spacers could be added to either end of the rod to increase the lengths of them. But if they offer on the fly adjustability, then I may consider them.

But between having bent hex adapters, untaped and unbalanced tires, and shocks that may or maynot be evenly balanced also, I like to be able to individually adjust each corner. This way, I can have the pede drive straight, coast straight and break straight even with all of the imperfections. Plus i like to run my toe and camber weird ways. And if I have a real wobbly tire, I rotate it more often and readjust my links appropriately. If the slayers can give me that, I might consider the steering links.

[ksb51rl]

That's a rather different way to go about tuning. It gives a whole new connotation to the term "tweaking."

[DiggerPede]

Well, hold on Diggerpede. Maybe you can help me figure this out because I do like the way the slayer mod looks.

I was under the impression that the slayer rods, weren't really adjustable. I was under the impression that spacers could be added to either end of the rod to increase the lengths of them. But if they offer on the fly adjustability, then I may consider them.

But between having bent hex adapters, untaped and unbalanced tires, and shocks that may or maynot be evenly balanced also, I like to be able to individually adjust each corner. This way, I can have the pede drive straight, coast straight and break straight even with all of the imperfections. Plus i like to run my toe and camber weird ways. And if I have a real wobbly tire, I rotate it more often and readjust my links appropriately. If the slayers can give me that, I might consider the steering links.

Just checking to see if we are on the same page. You know the different holes on the towers and carriers. You can "tweak" the camber by moving to the next hole or set of holes. I use this to make adjustments if need be. Quick and easy using a hex driver while you are out and about without needing a gauge to check both sides. Like you said you will need to fix it up initially then put spacers to keep the links in place. They are pushrods so fine adjustments using a wrench tool isnt their highlight. LOL

That's a rather different way to go about tuning. It gives a whole new connotation to the term "tweaking."

LOL

Am I right about "tweaking" them & angle of the camber this way or am I like way off??

[BaldyDaniels]

That's cool Loot, but definitely a bummer about the snapped links. I went thru that mess a while back myself. Im probably going to skip the slayer rods mod only because I like the full adjustability of a link. My master plan is to run a combination of captured ends and studs/ball cups. Ideally, captured on the servo saver, stud on an alum steering knuckle. Captured on the anza's and studs on the tower. Lastly, captured on the rear tower, and studs on the rear carriers.

If you run studs and cups on one end of your steering links, youll be counteracting the benefits of the servo saver. If you run a heavy duty servo saver, your links will be popping off every time they take a good hit. Or if you run a weak servo saver to kepp the cups from popping off, your steering would be sloppy. I would run captured on both ends of the turnbuckles.

I was bending/breaking 3mm and 4mm steel links and broke a lot of long rod ends before i started running 6mm axial aluminium tube links. My son loves to run my truck over with his emaxx, so he is always chasing my truck down. Every single time my truck met wheel to wheel with that tank i broke a link or an end but now I havent had an issue since i switched to the tube links. Sure 6mm is probably overkill, but that was exactly the point. I see your point of view on using balls and cups, cuz i got really tired of breaking links or ends and having a run end because of it, especially if i had limited time to run the truck. When i first thought about using tube links, i didnt like the idea of using spacers to adjust the length, but then i realized that with all the adjustment holes on my servo saver, c-blocks and shock towers its way easier to get an exact adjustment for both sides. No more counting threads or tedious measuring, just switch holes and go. The tube links are the way to go imo.

[911dott]

Im gonna be converting over my ladies truck to 4mm for just the Cambers. I NEVER had an issue on my truck.... But then I ended up upgrading to the DREADEDEND links... before they could cause any problems. Now with the ladies truck, two have been snapped, two bash sessions in a row. I think its cuz of the RPM rod ends, where as the Traxxas ones had more give... With the ladies, Last time a front link alum link was snapped, and now today a rear one broke. Fortuantly it was the very end of a bashing of session...

Im gonna be doing some with short rod ends for front cambers, and some in combo with long rod ends for the rear..

I run 4x50 links with the RPM ends and they work like a champ!!! If you talking about the Traxxas aluminum links on your ladys truck-->they snap very easy. TRX should be ashame to have them on the market..

[Oaks]

Wow, It's really neat to see how everybody's kind of got their own way of adjusting links. It's just a funny thing to see that not only does everybody have a preference for how they want their suspension set up, but the parts chosen and the methods used are just as unique. I never thought to use the different holes as a way to take a fixed length link and add or remove camber.

I never considered it because I always though of those holes as a way to change the geometry of the caster block during suspension travel. From what I remember, it has to do with adding negative camber during the downward suspension travel to improve traction. I don't know if our bashers really ever get tuned that finely, but its a possibility I suppose.

I do know that i'm not really a fan of negative camber in general. At least not in a motionless state a la 'as the truck sits.' With a more straight up and down setup or even slightly positive camber, i find that the truck relies on the tires themselves for cornering grip. Too much neg camber makes my truck want to dig into turns and rollover. Of course, this is my perspective as i see a good amount of street running, especially once my tires hit the 'halfway' point. I don't know about you guys, but no matter what the tire is, or however good they were (in grass especially) when new, they aren't half as good in grass or offroading once the treads wear about halfway down or more.

Blaster, thanks for the info regarding 4mm links. It sounds like a good place to start, especially for the front end parts. The rear links just dont really take the same kind of abuse imo.
Doc, I hear you on the captured ends. I ripped a screw out of a protrac tower that connects the camber link and that's exactly the kind of breakage I want to steer clear from.
Diggerpede, this is all new to me so I apologize for not seeing how you made the slayer mod work. I honestly didn't get it at first, but now I see.
ksb51rl, i'm under the impression that we don't live in a perfect world, so having links that are all matched and camber thats dialed in identically just wouldn't work for me.
BaldyDaniels, thanks for the explanation of the use of rods as links and I appreciate the input regarding the use of studs/ballcups in the steering linkage. Oh, and those FLM hex adapters look money, nice touch!
Absoloot, I'll keep posted about your linkage upgrades. Hopefully, I'll post up a nice thread about what it takes to install Ti links all the way around - if I ever pull the trigger, lol. There's so much to consider as far as which ends to get, what lengths to get, which length and diameter links to get and really, not a whole lot of documentation for a guy who wants some answers quick and easy.
and 911Dott, I hear you on the Traxxas ano links. It's like they cant handle vibrations and will just snap at any given moment and leave you looking like what the ? like, I have no idea why that just happened...

I'm feeling pretty good about this discussion all. Thanks for all of the input guys and i'll be sure to report back once I get this sorted.

[O.G.]

Good thread guys, I've picked up a few new tips.

In the recent issue of RC Driver they suggested using a body reamer to open the hole a little bit on a new rod end to make threading it easier - I tried it and it works. I used to cuss when I put on new ends.

[ReaperGN]

There's so much to consider as far as which ends to get, what lengths to get, which length and diameter links to get and really, not a whole lot of documentation for a guy who wants some answers quick and easy.

If one was just going to use standard traxxas ends then they could simply look at the available kits and choose their lengths based on what comes in them. If you are using Pro-Trac front arms then simply subtract the front/shorter links in the kits and replace them with another pair of rears.

I could just post what I am using since I have been using ball cups for a fair amount time. But not everyone is ready to spend the money to change everything out. Then there is the problem of aluminum parts requiring 3mm threads. I believe HPI, Duratrax, Kyosho and Tamiya have some but I have not looked much into it. If anyone is interested I use 2 1/8" links and Losi Heavy Duty 30° Plastic Rod Ends for my camber links. Plenty of threads in the ends and lots of available adjustment.

[AbSoLooT1]

Whats up guys.. Funniest thing. I NEVER had an issue with MY truck, and as u guys may have seen, man oh man I beat it up. I even had two STRC Hinge pins BEND and nothing to the links.... Than in my ladies truck, snap snap!




Fortunatly for mine, Nada I converted to slayer links, than stuff happens on hers. lol. Id do the same to hers, but I need/want to retain the pink rod ends I made.....





Im keeping the Steel TBS I have for the time, as they have held up very well. Knock knock knock

[BaldyDaniels]

I never thought to use the different holes as a way to take a fixed length link and add or remove camber.

I never considered it because I always though of those holes as a way to change the geometry of the caster block during suspension travel. From what I remember, it has to do with adding negative camber during the downward suspension travel to improve traction. I don't know if our bashers really ever get tuned that finely, but its a possibility I suppose.

I do know that i'm not really a fan of negative camber in general. At least not in a motionless state a la 'as the truck sits.' With a more straight up and down setup or even slightly positive camber, i find that the truck relies on the tires themselves for cornering grip. Too much neg camber makes my truck want to dig into turns and rollover.

Youre absolutely correct man, the optional camber link mounting holes do alter the rate at which the camber angle changes throughout the suspension's movement, but moving the camber link mount on the shock tower to the inside or outside holes will have the same effect as changing the length of the link.

Im no racer, so i just know the basics such as raising the link on the shock tower will have less camber rise while lowering the link will add camber rise. More negative camber makes the truck more forgiving and prevents the edges of the tires from catching and rolling the truck. Adding positive (or taking away negative) camber makes the truck steer more aggressively because the edge of the tire digs into the surface. Delving any deeper into these changes usually just gives me a headache. Lol

Also, the axial links i use arent fixed length links, the threaded rod that fastens the rod end to the link is about an inch long with a hex drive at one end.



So once i figure out the length i need, i choose the correct sized spacers, use a hex key to thread the rod into the rod end first, leaving the amount of thread showing that i need for the spacers and to fasten to the link and done.



Besides the 6 optional camber link mounting holes on my shock tower, I also have the optional mounting position holes on my HR c-blocks, so im not limited in any way as far as quicker adjustments go. But like i said, im no racer, so the only time i change any link positions is when i switch from bashing to speed runs, or when i switch tires. Now that my truck is so wide, it doesnt matter what my link adjustments are cuz it rarely ever rolls. Even doing speed runs on hot asphalt running trenchers at 55mph i can whip a hook and it'll either turn on a dime, or if the tires lose traction itll just power slide. Having it set up like this eliminated 90% of the high speed, parts mangling cartwheels, which is just fine by me cuz i break enough parts from big air landings and impacts due to lack of concentration. Lol

[Blaster75]

I gotta ask... how are you guys breaking the steel links? I hit stuff all the time (hard), almost never land a jump clean, have top speed cartwheels on concrete, I have even stuffed it down the drain a few times, and.... one broken PL arm, one PL shock tower, bunch o' stock shock shafts, a knuckle, and a caster block. 'Course, I'm leaving out the dozen or so kingpins and hingepins, and totally ignoring the time I let a six year old drive it, but no links. I think that the last time I hurt a link was when I got a homemade truggy caught in a chainlink fence, and that was a cheesy 3.5mm link on an OFNA Ultra. So, what's up? Am I just not crashing hard enough?