Ed's New Summit Build

[Edstoys]

All right THINK I have about got my Summit figured out and my existing chassis is so full of holes, etc. from all the change of mind or new ideas am starting fresh with a new chassis. Also now have Jimmies old radio that I need to configure in with the unmentionable switch, which will end up giving me more channels than I will know what to do with LOL.
Also adding a winch and rear steer. The rear steer in on and working but not happy with the configuration as I am trying to make it modular and right now have lost the rear bumper but is modular. By modular I mean take a few screws out and the whole rear steering system will come off.
Another problem I noticed is the way it is now, when rear steer is activated the body posts are pulled rearward real bad. Problems, problems LOL stay tuned as I figure them out will post, so that it may help others as well. As I am now asking Jimmie help with his radio system I bought w/two Receivers and a radio with more switches than on the Shuttle.
First thing is getting a Hitec HS7980 to fit in the stock location, which I have accomplish, just need to get some pics and a little write up to how I did it.
Also building for longevity and will only be adding aluminum parts where I feel it will help.

[Edstoys]

Here are some pics of my rear steer prototype, remember this is going to be redone and it looks a lot worse than it is.
All I have to do is remove the 4 screws in the body support, one screw near the bottom on center one on the servo saver and of course the tie rods and it all come off.





Here going to try and show what it takes to get a Hitec HS7980TH to fit....sorry for the bad pics.

The stock cut out for the steering servo has rounded edges, those need to be made so they are squared off
From this

to this

[Edstoys]

To get the Servo to fit the stock hole location this what I had to do using a dremel with a diamond bit, not getting in any big hurry.

[noir 522]

Actually the 7980 slides right in. I know the hitec website quote 2-3mm longer but I did not notice it during installation. Try different angles.

[Edstoys]

Actually the 7980 slides right in. I know the hitec website quote 2-3mm longer but I did not notice it during installation.

Well it did not slide right in my new chassis, why the write up. If it slides right in great if not then they now know what has to be done

[noir 522]

Sorry, just a simple observation/suggestion.

[Edstoys]

New rear steer configuration. Probably will have to replace the Lexan as am not sure it will handle the stress of the steering torque.
Those that have done rear steering sense this is my first attempt, do you see any problems or potential problems that might happen after some use?







Like I stated above in my view the only weak point is the Lexan.

[Jimmie Neutron]

How about a video??

The lexan is going to snap... my little ESC mount did not even hold up. lol But you have a good template for a metal/plastic one... before it does snap.

[happymachinist]

High torque servos exert more force then a guy thinks...I mounted mine to a peice of 1/16 alum and it flexed like crazy...I switched it out for 1/16 stainless because I didn't have room for thicker aluminum.

I also would like to see a video...one of these days I'm going to make one but I suffer from stage fright.


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[Edstoys]

Sorry no Video guys, had not even run it when I took those pics. When I did run it the servo got hot to the touch, so got to figure that out and why a couple of other things where not working right like rear wheels not coming back to center all the time.
I watched the lexan real close and SO far it seems to be holding up, down towards the bottom (Lexan) there is a screw into the body support which helps with the flexing a lot. But agree as soon as I can find some Alum. wide enough will make the support out of that. If servo is fried am afraid rear steer is going to have to wait.
The Lexan I am using is for window replacement is some strong stuff, have used it before on the truck and surprised how well it held up and cheap from Low's. But will be replacing it.

[Edstoys]

New modular rear steer. Take the 3 screws out that hold the body support to the chassis and what you see in the pics all comes off. Servo saver is held by a self locking screw which is embedded with epoxy in the body support. It all lines up and works as far as clearance goes. Its ugly and stout nothing moving at all even with the 7980 servo. Will redo and try to clean up and eliminate some of the screws when I find some alum. wide enough without having to buy a big sheet of the stuff.
Will post pics of it on the truck later. Going to run it and hopefully it all works as it seems it will. Get this done and then will get to work on Jimmies old radio system on my truck. Anyway here are the pics.

Front view


Side view



Rear view

[Edstoys]

Well nuts; 281 views and only 4 comments. Guess I was wrong thinking ppl might be interested in my progression of all wheel steering and the rest of the new build but guess not. Oh well! Not even going to bother with posting my new set up when I got a hold of some new material.

[jamann]

I look but don't always comment just enjoying the fine work and dreaming


Sent using lipo power

[Jimmie Neutron]

I look but don't always comment just enjoying the fine work and dreaming

I concur...

[krallopian]

Yeah man, with that amount of views obviously people are interested! The whole, "WOW looks great!" only holds so much worth though after 15 people say it.

The ingenuity behind this is great, but what people want to see is videos! So throw a video up, let people see how it works and I'm certain you'll get more feedback!

I like how you extended the bumper, the first few pics I saw I was worried you wouldn't be using a bumper anymore.

[Redsawacs]

I think you got everything as is should be. now that its not direct drive off the servo, you can make adjustments in torque and speed by changing the length of the servo arm or the servo saver arm!

Looks BULLET PROOF! (I think that's suppose to be one word....either way.....)

Hard to see from the pictures, did you tie the body mount extensions/servo mount plate into the lower part of the body mount itself? If not, that would add stability to the entire project.

Keep "Wrenchin"!

[DiggerPede]

I totally dig it myself. Don't be discouraged by very few comments. Be glad you get the many views and interests by the unknown ghost subscribes. LOL I find it very ingenious and innovative! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

[Mayberry Kid]

Enjoying the build Ed, I'm looking forward to you plans to select/utilize the 4WS. Possibly additional wheel, punk controller, or something else. Anyway keep up the fine work and attention to/sharing of details.

I kinda understand your feelings on lack of feedback! But I believe Digger's right, views must be considered as well.
BTW I think I have an unofficial record, I have a post up here with almost 200 views since mid June with no comments, LOL. I know it's being used, which was exactly my intention

[Edstoys]

Thanks guys, and understand now about the replies & post counts.
Now I have two big problems.
1. Rear wheels are turning so far that the wheels are rubbing on the tie rods.
2. HOPEFULLY when I get this corrected the rear servo will stop getting hot. Right now it gets hot to the touch.

I have a Hitec Servo Programmer and have set everything and still it gets hot to the touch so am hopping the rubbing is creating the problem. Other thing is now the rear wheels have way more turn radius or more throw than the front, so in a couple of my test runs (in the house) rear steer is almost dictating which direction the truck goes.


Mayberry, do have a punk controller & a BEC, right now trying to figure out where I am going to put them (as the plan is to keep the switch that is controlling all my lights). Also still a little confused on the wiring of the BEC for the steering servo's. Right now big problem is space for the instillation of these items.
But before I get into that, have to figure out and get the rear steering working correctly...no rubbing, shorten the servo throw, and hopefully that will solve the heat problem on the HS7980TH.
Then have to configure everything over to Jimmie's radio I bought which has 10 channels of its own on top of my switch which has another 7 or 14 depends on how you configure it. Right now I have it set with 7 and more than likely will leave it that way, so as to control the lights and motor & ESC fans.

[krallopian]

If you wanted and had the tools, the quickest way to change that I Think would be to open it up and throw some resistors in line with the pot in the servo - it will lower it's range of movement. OR change the mechanics of it so there is less throw on the arm - hook p the steering to a spot closer to the pivot of the servo to reduce range of motion.

[Edstoys]

If you wanted and had the tools, the quickest way to change that I Think would be to open it up and throw some resistors in line with the pot in the servo - it will lower it's range of movement. OR change the mechanics of it so there is less throw on the arm - hook p the steering to a spot closer to the pivot of the servo to reduce range of motion.

Thanks Krallopian;
Got the tools, but pushing my soldering just doing LED's so soldering a pot in the Servo is out of my range, so not going to push my luck.
Thought of trying to change the pivot point closer, but as it is now having to use two of the holes on the servo arm to hold the extension I had to make of the end of the servo arm. Only other option I can think of is to redo the mount and turn the servo horz. instead of being vert. as it is now. Got a fix but going to take some time (mess of screws per Axial wheel). Switched wheels and now have Axial 8-Spoke Oversize Beadlock Wheel Black with Trencher 40's, and the Oversized wheels have to much offset and inside ring is rubbing. SOoo Going to take the Trenchers of the Axials and put them on the Alum. Wheels. Hopefully going from a 1.25"(approx) offset to a .75" offset will do the trick. Did a mock up and that seems to be able to make it work.
Pictures got to remember to take pics of the problems and show what is going on, reminds self.....which I am not used to as usually just explaining it would do in the boating world. Writes a note with magic marker on left hand...."Take Pics of what you are about to post about"

[Edstoys]

Need some help!!!

Changed my wheels back to the alum. and no dragging anywhere. Reset the servo to factory default then went and configured overload protection @ 50%. Ran the Summit on tile floor in the basement (work area) just long enough to make sure there was no rubbing and the tie rods where clearing. Stopped it and could not keep my figure on the servo's heat sink....Temp.104.9 F.
Can not for the life of me figure out what is going on to create such a high temp. Front servo(HS7950) was still cool to the touch.
Hmm not running a BEC yet could the low voltage on the monster HS7980 be causing the heat?
Need help trying to figure this out.
Thanks ahead of time.

[krallopian]

When it's idle is there any hum?

Try reversing them, and see what happens - other wise just put the hot one in the front, and see if it runs cool, then you'll know if its your design, or if it's the servo! =)

[Edstoys]

When it's idle is there any hum?

Try reversing them, and see what happens - other wise just put the hot one in the front, and see if it runs cool, then you'll know if its your design, or if it's the servo! =)

No hum @ idle.

What do you see wrong with the design? Seems solid to me but not been around these truck all that long so I could be overlooking something that would create a problem.
Have stayed away from it all day, so when I do go back to working on it something that I was not seeing may pop out at me know. Anywho very frustrating and at the same time very confused on why Servo is getting hot.

[happymachinist]

If this is your current version experiencing heat issues:

My observations tell me you are over working your servo. I see why you extended the horn (to keep your linkage straight with the world wich I agree with) But by lengthening the horn you lose mechanical advantage while increasing the range of motion.

I based my linkage members on stock geometry (let traxxas do the engineering for me ) you have used an aluminum bell crank with stock geometry as well but your horn doesn't match traxxas' length.

So you have more range of motion wich you probably dont need and less torque than you could have. If you don't have your end points programmed (if that applies to your servo) it will move your bell crank until something bottoms out stalling your servo leading to higher amp draws and heat.

If at all possible rework your servo mounting plate and move the servo farther to the left and shorten the horn while keeping your linkage perpendicular like you have it. (i am a big fan of that IMO linkages need to be straight!!) It wouldn't be centered and symmetrical but that shouldn't matter.

With my recent experience you still should have plenty of motion for steering your rear wheels. (mine turn sharper than the fronts)

Without having it in my hands I can't be 100% sure but from Internet pictures that's what I see.

Good luck buddy


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[Edstoys]

Thanks a lot for that big exploitation HM!
That's about the same thing I came to as well and need to get a pic up of my current configuration. No longer have a single horn but went to a heavy duty double so less stress on the servo by it working both wheel equally and not trying to turn both with one horn. Still getting a little heat, but not near as bad as it was. Probably going to redo. the whole thing and turn the servo so it is horz. and not vert.

[happymachinist]

Ok good deal. What are the dimensions of your double horn? If its length is the same (center mount to linkage mount) you didn't gain anything. Shoot for a length of 3/4 inch-ish from servo spline center to where your linkage mounts.


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[Edstoys]

NO double horn, TOTALLY reconfigured it so now the servo is Horz. going to look funny, but the horn will now line up with the servo saver. Think what I got figured will work, but things are working out so good stopped and am taking a break to make sure.
Have the servo moved so far over one side of the mounting holes are lining up with the body support on the left side. IF this don't work out will have to move it over a tad so it is not on the body mount support (on left side looking from the rear).
HM at lest you little write up made me see what I was missing; Thanks will get it figured out now .... Hopefully

[Edstoys]

FINALLY got my rear steering working Properly, with no heat problems thanks to Happymachinist, who caught and told me what was creating the problem, which is in post #25.
Tried taking a video, but with a small compact camera and trying to run the truck at the same time was not to good but think it shows how the 4 wheel steer works for NOW. Have a steering computer to get on next. Oh tires are diffident due to got new tires coming and did not fell like taking them all apart yet, and had to put the ALum. ones back on because the Axial 8-Spoke Oversize Beadlock w/Trenchers where rubbing on the tie rods, those are still on the front.
Here is the messy Video and pics of rear steering set up will fallow....Thanks again HM.
http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n...teering031.mp4




Don't know why the last pic keeps loading upside down, just stand on your head and look

[reod12x2]

hmmmm i dont see it upside down
but it is mirrored

[Edstoys]

Either or its wrong and body posts should be on top, even deleted it from photobucket and reloaded and it still come up like it is . Internet gremlins I guess.
The messy video is in link form in bold letters right before the pics start., first time trying to post a video so not sure how to go about it.

[04zrx]

I assume you operate the rear steer on a separate channel, is there a way that you could wire it so that it worked in conjunction with the front steer but opposite?

I saw a truck (GMC ) that had rear steer and that is how that one works just a thought I don't really know.

[Jimmie Neutron]

Yes.
You would need a device called a servo reverser.
Plug this device inline with the servo you want reversed = reversed servo.

With what he is doing, he is going to have crab steering (\\+\\), non-crab steering (\\+//), and front only steering; all selectable from the remote, yet still be controlling both axles with the wheel.

[happymachinist]

Lookin good man.

I'm curious to see how you're going to control it with the reverser. Mine are wired in to turn opposite each other with the steering wheel but no module yet. I'm still in the testing phase.

Keep us posted. The wiring specifically


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[Jimmie Neutron]

Ed is not using a servo reverser... he has a Punk RC steering PC.

[Edstoys]

Ed is not using a servo reverser... he has a Punk RC steering PC.

Great Job Jimmie keep reply to the questions for me you do a better job anyway
Now that I have my rear steering figured out, need to get busy on the new Chassis and then will start work on your radio system, So Jimmie stay close questions will be coming still not real sure about the BEC as not able to figure out the amp draw or find the info of two 7980's @ 6.0V w/500 oz or 7.4V w/611 oz. Do the being a novice at Low voltage systems (anything below 12VDC) not even sure how to test the voltage they are getting now and do have a Hitec Programmer. Guess will have to make a visit to Hitec's web page.
Thanks for the compliments and the mirrored/wrong pic was the last one taken before my camera battery died so guess that is what caused it, but still is a mystery to me.
Next big problem is where am I going to put the BEC and the Punk computer with the configuration I have. Figure the BEC needs constant air flow to keep it cool so feel can not put it in a box w/ the Rx, which is what I am thinking about doing with the Punk Computer.

[Edstoys]

I assume you operate the rear steer on a separate channel, is there a way that you could wire it so that it worked in conjunction with the front steer but opposite?

I saw a truck (GMC ) that had rear steer and that is how that one works just a thought I don't really know.

Nope right now the steering is being controlled by the wheel on the radio, only have a single steering servo in the front opens up a spot for the rear servo in the Rx. and what you see in the video is how it works without a servo reverser in line with the rear steering servo. Simple way to do rear steering. But had to get that working correctly before I could move on to bigger and better thinks

[rcej4]

Can you comment on details about the steering arm connection to the chassis? I've been searching to create a 4ws and your design seems to be pretty solid; but can't see from your pics what you're doing to connect the arm to the frame.

Some other random questions -
- Is that an ST Racing concepts servo arm? or??? I'm looking for a single arm Al unit for the front steering....
- Are you using a dedicated BEC for the servo? which one?
- You're using a modified radio to get the extra channel for the PunkRC unit, correct? Maybe I missed it in the thread, but couldn't figure out where the extra channel comes from since the stock radio seems to have them all taken.


Nice build -
ej

[Jimmie Neutron]

I can answer a few of those questions...

The BEC he is using is a linear 6v or 5v selectable 8amp unit.

The radio information can be found here:
http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...y-2238-Project...
However, if you are willing to make sacrifices; you can use a stock radio and have 4WS as described here:
http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...s-tqi-question

[Edstoys]

Can you comment on details about the steering arm connection to the chassis? I've been searching to create a 4ws and your design seems to be pretty solid; but can't see from your pics what you're doing to connect the arm to the frame.

Some other random questions -
- Is that an ST Racing concepts servo arm? or??? I'm looking for a single arm Al unit for the front steering....
- Are you using a dedicated BEC for the servo? which one?
- You're using a modified radio to get the extra channel for the PunkRC unit, correct? Maybe I missed it in the thread, but couldn't figure out where the extra channel comes from since the stock radio seems to have them all taken.


Nice build -
ej

Not everyone is going to be willing to destroy parts as I did to create the my anchor point to the chassis. Yes That is a ST Racing Servo arm and saver. I ended up destroying stock 5343 & 5337 to connect the servo saver to the chassis. (should have taken pics) The stock plastic ones did not hold up so ended up doing the same thing to STR equivalent parts.
Radio right NOW is STOCK but has been reconfigured so I have an open steering channel due to front steering only having a single servo.
Ran the truck last night for a 30 min. and rear servo saver was about to come off, so back to the drawing board. Probably would help greatly if I was not using such a monster of a servo. Using HS7980.
The radio information that Jimmie gave you is in my position and will be used when I get a sold rear steering system.
Also read all posts because the post right above yours#37 explains my radio right now and am not using the PunkRC unit, or a reverser until I get a solid rear steering system. Problem I'm having is trying to make mine modular, in that take a few screws out and the whole steering system comes off, rear bumper and all.
Hope this helps.