Bet This Raises an Eyebrow or Two

[Dadx2mj]

So last night I ran into what I thought was a really good deal on a Castle 1406 5700kv 4 pole motor. I bought it with the thought of sticking it in my Rusty. My son convinced me it was worth a try in my Pede 4x4

So I got a chance to run it this morning thinking it would over heat but much to my delight it did not. I have it geared 12/54 and a heat sink from a Villian boat on the motor running on G Loc tires. The speed calculator puts this set up right at 50 mph. Motor temps on the can were in the low 130º range while temps on the fins of the heat sink were 150º at the end of a 2s 5200 mah pack.

Truck was noticeably faster than it was with the 3800kv motor geared 17/54 on the same tires. The 5700 is shorter and presumably lighter than the 3800 but I did not think it would be enough to make any difference but the truck did seem to be jumping further and higher then it did when the 3800 was installed and just felt a little lighter on it's feet, this may just be in my head.

Not totally sure if this motor is going to stay in my Pede 4x4 or find it's way into my Rusty but I must say I was impressed with it in the Pede and if it does not cause any issues with more use it might just stay in the Pede.

[Jemgen]

That is quite surprising. I thought sure it would get hot. Does it lack a lot of bottom punch compared to the 3800?

[Dadx2mj]

That is quite surprising. I thought sure it would get hot. Does it lack a lot of bottom punch compared to the 3800?

I thought it would but have to say it does not. Stab the throttle the thing lifts the front end and just scoots away from you.

[snowmaxx 3905]

Were you using the stock esc or the mmp with it?

[Petertje60]

Theoretically it should be faster, only looking at the Kv rates and the gearing, but it is quite surprising that you could notice it so well. Did you radar both top speeds? I wonder if you tried the 3800 on 3S already. I think that one is a little tame on 2S compared to 3S.

Anyhow, interesting info!

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[Dadx2mj]

Were you using the stock esc or the mmp with it?

This truck has had a MMP in it from the get go. I never even ran the stock ESC or motor they went on ebay as new items and sold fast.

Petertje60 kind of embarrassed to admit it but the truth is I have yet to radar this truck with either motor in it. It has never been set up as a speed runner more just a fun truck to bash with. It has only been run on 2s and I was getting to where I was wanting a little more speed and was thinking I might go 3s on my next battery purchase. Now with the 5700 in it I seem to have found that little extra speed I was wanting and should be able to stick with 2s but I want to put some more runs on it before I make my mind up on that one.

Funny how things work out. I would have not picked a 5700kv for this truck but when I got such a good deal on a practically brand new motor ($50) and I knew the owner and how he treats his stuff I knew I had to get it. I figured it would end up in my Rusty but as of now thinking it MIGHT stay in the Pede.

[Petertje60]

The most important reason to ask is how the "feel" of speed is influenced by the RPM the motor makes (at least in my case). I was running with a few other guys with Slashes today. Others had VXL and Titans and still looked pretty fast. I never expected mine to be tons faster because it makes way less RPM and doesnt seem that fast.

More proof that the right gearing is very important.

If you ever get radar results, Im curious.

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[Dadx2mj]

I'll hit it with the radar first chance I get with my son out there, it takes two of us as I cant drive and use the gun at the same time I understand what you are saying but have no doubt it is faster with he 5700 just based on what I am seeing driving it and what the math from the speed calculator points out.

What is surprising me is the punch it has and the temps being as low as they are. I've been wanting to get my hands on a 4 pole 5700 for some time I really loved the 2 pole version in my Rusty and after seeing what a 4 pole design brings to the table with the 3800 I just wanted a 4 post 5700 really bad,,,just surprised it appears to be a good match in the Pede 4x4

EDIT: BTW the guy pulled the 5700 from his SC10 because it was just more than the truck or he could handle. It had shredded two sets of tranny gears and twisted a couple sets of CVD's in about a months time.

[pavmentsurfer]

Im not surprised its faster but like you said dad... I'm VERY surprised that it stayed cool. id love to hear from someone with a 4600kv motor geared maybe 14/54 and see how that runs. Who knows, maybe all that we think we know about this truck and higher KV motors is wrong.

[Dadx2mj]

Im not surprised its faster but like you said dad... I'm VERY surprised that it stayed cool. id love to hear from someone with a 4600kv motor geared maybe 14/54 and see how that runs. Who knows, maybe all that we think we know about this truck and higher KV motors is wrong.

I think the 4 pole design is what makes it work. I seriously doubt the 5700kv 2 pole would work even close to as good as the 4 pole does in this truck. For those wanting to make the most of a 2s set up this might be the ticket.

[Petertje60]

The proper gearing and staying on 2S makes a huge difference. I think the 50% more voltage of 3S results in 200% more risk of (over)heating issues. Too many want more power from the ESCs and motors than they can handle without having issues. That was my fault with the Sv2 and the 2 pole 5700.

The higher efficiency of the 4 poles helps to keep the temps down, and I think that effect is more important on lower voltages with the same amount of power where you need more amps.
Go down to the same gearing with the 3800 and go to 3S and you will notice that the 5700 is no competition for the 3800 when it comes to power. But on 2S you get quite some usable power for less money from the 5700.

My buddy's Slash has a MM/2650 combo and of course that is faster than my Pede with a MMP/2400, but the added amount of power is hardly usable. We did some parking lot racing yesterday and mine was on its lid only once because I hit the brakes too hard. His one was more on its lid than on its wheels.

So often you see it: more power... yes, but usable.... not always.

And again: good info.

[DiggerPede]

WOW dad good find. That is totally awesome how good it works in a P4de with good conservative gearing like that. Not to change the truck subject but you know how its always been said not to put anything above 4000 in a P2de. But yet asheck confirmed running a higher kv motor was applicable. So now to me it seems you could put a 4600 or 5700 in there with no problems. Being in a P4de you are running twice the drivetrain and wheels and only on 2S and the puppy scoots w/o any issues.

I have the MMP 2400 in my P4de it is just so hungry, you have to run 3s at min. I sometimes wish now i would have put the 3800 in it.

Thanks for the info dad. If there is anyone that i would trust it would be your knowledge and experience in running it and the results. If only money grew on tree's or i could find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow i'd test each of the systems and their capabilites.

[Dadx2mj]

Alright after several more runs today I am pretty convinced the 5700kv 4 pole is going to stay in the Pede 4x4. Highest motor temp I have seen is 155º. I will say the 5700 lacks some of the torque of the 3800 but honestly how much torque do you need? The 5700 will pick the front end up in the air and keep the wheelie bar pinned as far has I want to ride the wheelie, any more torque would just serve to rip up drive line parts. Motor temps are about identical to what I was seeing with the 3800kv motor and even though I have not used the radar on it yet I have do doubt in my mind the truck is noticeably faster than it was with the 3800kv motor.

This set up is not going to be for everyone as I am running smaller tires and only on 2s but for getting the most out of the 2s and turning these smaller tires I am without doubt liking the 5700 4 pole over the 3800kv 4 pole in this truck.

[ksb51rl]

12/54, smallish tires, 2S only, and ¿terrain?

[Dadx2mj]

12/54, smallish tires, 2S only, and ¿terrain?

Most of my running is a mix of pavement and medium to tall grass, this weekend the grass is really wet, tall and thick from some recent rain we got.

[Apexracing]

Good deal got to love 4 pole motors

[El Sob]

Have you had a chance to do a radar run yet? I am very interested!

[spenniepoos]

I am thinking about getting the 4600kv when vxl dies and run it on 2s and 3s

[JMG]

When I get mine built, I'm looking to power it with the 1410 4 pole 4600KV.

[rag6]

In my heavy slash carpet oval truck, my 4600 runs very cool. About 40° cooler than I expected. The truck gets unbelievable traction, maybe 1 tooth overgeared, I run the slipper locked, the track is small, and its full throttle, full brake, every 2.2 seconds for 5 min, and its at 130° at 75° ambient after the race. If I tried that with the 2 pole 4600, it would be toast after 2 mins. The motor also out accelerates every other combo that the other racers are using in lighter trucks. These castle 4 pole motors just kill.

[johnh2005]

How much does a stock Stampede weigh?

[Petertje60]

How much does a stock Stampede weigh?

66.45oz (1.88kg)

[Dadx2mj]

Have you had a chance to do a radar run yet? I am very interested!

Sorry I haven't yet. My packs have seen better days and I will be ordering a couple new SPC 50c packs next week. I'll clock it once I get those new packs.

[Dadx2mj]

Got my new packs today, SPC 2s 5400 mah 50c packs. These things are amazing the punch was over the top with these packs.

I am told they wake up with a few cycles but on the first run of the first pack we broke out the radar gun and clocked 46 mph several times ande one pass of 47 mph. Plenty fast for where and how I drive but man the new packs made getting there so fast and a hand full,,,if I did not use good throttle control I was doing a huge wheelie.

[Petertje60]

Glad you like them. Now I am even more impatient to wait for my 3S one to arrive.
What were you previous ones, Dad? The 5200 40C ones?

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[Dadx2mj]

Glad you like them. Now I am even more impatient to wait for my 3S one to arrive.
What were you previous ones, Dad? The 5200 40C ones?

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Yep I had the 5200 40c packs and they served me very well but no doubt in my mind these packs are stronger than my previous packs.

[Petertje60]

Cool. I am in the same boat, only with 3S. When you look at the C rate, its "only" 10C more, but when you look at Amps, its arond 30% difference. First reason I got it for, is the speed run Bandit, but one thing is sure... my Pede will see it soon!