Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    RC Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    31

    My experimental battery

    I originally came across Traxxas cars by searching for information on lithium batteries. I have accumulated quite a few "Bad" laptop batteries and a treadmill motor that I was planning on building a go-kart out of. After finding this forum, I decided to buy some Slashes and start having fun. I didn't give up on my batteries though. Here are my findings.

    This is not meant as a recommendation to do what I have done. This can be dangerous. I came close to starting a fire more than a few times and smoked several cells. This is just informational to save someone time, who was thinking about doing this.

    If you take apart a laptop battery, you are likely to find 9 to 12 LiIon cells. I have cells from a few different years and models so the cells are from different manufacturers but all roughly the same. All of the cells were rated at 2000Mah or 2200Mah, 3.6v, 1C charge and 2C discharge.

    I experimented with putting 3 of the batteries in series and charging them with a 12V car charger. I built a rig for this so I could pop cells in and out easily. I would "balance" the cells by stopping the charge when the total voltage got to 12.3 volts and then checking the voltage of each cell. This did not work out well because sometimes one cell would get charged to 4.5V while the other 2 were less than 4. Lesson learned.

    I then started measuring cells before I started and put 3 together that had a similar starting voltage. I would then charge to less than 12 volts and pull out any cells that had reached 4.2V and replace them with cells that had not reached 4.2V. Using this method, I was able to charge a pile of Cells to 4.2V.

    I used coils of wire and an old automobile coil resistor as loads to test the cells. I found that most all of the cells would hold the advertised 2C or 4 amps all the way down to 3.6V.

    Since Traxxas is selling 25C batteries, I started with a guess that 2C wasn't going to cut it. So I soldered 2 cells in parallel then put 2 of these in series. This is where I had my first problems. About half the time that I soldered 2 cells in parallel, one of them would short out and get very hot. At first I thought I was bridging the positive to the negative. Later I would find out that my problem was soldering 2 cells together that were not at the same voltage charge. So with my 2S2P homemade LiIon battery pack I could make my Slash move, but not for long. I had to run the car with the LVC disabled and any full throttle pull, would make the car start, but immediately cut out. This jives with what I found in my load experiments. If I tried to pull 6 or more amps from a cell, the voltage would drop below 3 volts in a few seconds.

    Next experiment was to try 3s3p pack. I did this mainly because when I broke down the laptop packs they were configured with 3 cells welded in parallel, connected in series to 3 more cells in parallel. Less soldering more play time. This worked very well for the limited time that I played with it. The car ran the fastest that I have ever seen it run, then I lost sight of it behind a parked car and it went down the storm drain.

    After retrieving the car I had no more time to test. I dropped the testing for a while and never went back to the 3s3p configuration, because I could not come up with a way to make it fit cleanly in the Slash. The best configuration I could come up with for fitment was a 2S5P configuration. 2 cells lay in parallel in the tray and three cells sit on top of the 2 in the tray. The Traxxas battery hold down for 3S Lipos work well for this configuration. This makes a final config of 10000Mah, 10C. From my testing this pack performs simmilarly to a 5000Mah NiMh pack, except that it runs much longer. Playing side by side with my son. I never fully discharged this pack while he went through 2 5000Mah NiMh packs and one 3000Mah pack. The weight is slightly less than a 5000Mah NiMh pack.

    Things to note.
    Batteries were free.
    Spent $5 on TRX connectors.
    Spent about 40 hours of labor and trashed 6 cells getting to this point.
    If you try this discharge your Cells to a within .01V of each other before soldering them together or you will ruin one or more of the cells and may burn your house down or get injured or both.
    I charge the cells using a normal peak charger at 4 amps and monitor the cells using a DVM. I stop charging when one cell reaches 4.25V then discharge it to match the lower cell then repeat untill both cells are at 4.25V.

    Hope this resolves some curiosity and prevents someone from wasting a bunch of time and batteries.

    mike

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Posts
    3,684
    Fantastic! I love experiments like these.

    Pics or it didn't happen!!!!


    edit:

    After re-reading your post I noticed something... You're having trouble when you paralel two mismatched cells? I use that to balance packs to each other quite a bit... but I'm using LIPO.

    There's those individual cells from maxxamps, where you can chain them to pack various packs... same thing there, where you would be plugging two mismatched cells into each other in order to force them to the same volts.

    I'm wondering if its a charge rate issue... because the pack with the higher volts will try to charge the lower cell.... perhaps exceeding the rate that the lower cell wants to take energy?
    Last edited by ducati777; 12-29-2011 at 09:06 AM.

  3. #3
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    205
    I have some of these very cells, great for other stuff but Not to power the motor ! Use insted as power for leds or a small cooling fan but they dont have the C rating to power anything like out esc and motor combo's !

  4. #4
    RC Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    31
    Ducati, I think you are right about the charge rate. If I have a cell at 4.2 and one at 3.6, it probably dumps 4-5 amps or more into the discharged battery. I'll get some pics after I get my slipper clutch noise fixed.

  5. #5
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    205

  6. #6
    RC Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    31
    Here are some pics. You will note the missing ESC and motor. Ugg. I droped them off at Traxxas today to help with identifying the cause of cogging.



    This is just the pack. Hopefully the fuzzy picture masks my bad soldering.


  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    12,933
    Quote Originally Posted by TeraTreker View Post
    I have some of these very cells, great for other stuff but Not to power the motor ! Use insted as power for leds or a small cooling fan but they dont have the C rating to power anything like out esc and motor combo's !
    You do realize that a 10000 mah 10 c pack puts out 100 amps? same as a 20c 5000 mah pack, which can power a vxl system pretty well. The c rating is directly related to the mah. I am assuming you are using a more hungry system.

    Mike442, did you maybe try your cogging esc with a decent quality lipo? Maybe those cells are not producing the amps they are rated for? At 100 amps you should be good with the vxl.
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  8. #8
    RC Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    31
    I misstated the C rating. The C rating stays the same as the cells, which are 2C. So it will do 20 amps sustained.

    I don't have any good LiPo batteries. I tried it with 7cell 3000Mah NiMh battery. It has worked fine on all the batteries I have before. Now to get it to not cog when I start I had to back the slipper clutch out 2.5 turns. I'm pretty sure something is up with the motor or ESC. I wish I had done some more experimenting before taking it in, but Traxxas is right down the street from me. I should have an answer early next week.

  9. #9
    RC Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    31
    Got my ESC and motor replaced by Traxxas today. Excellent customer service, both over the phone and in person. Everything is perfect again. I think the extended run time of my batteries and the over gearing is what did me in. I switched from 23/86 gearing to 17/90. I think that is more in line for the short course anyway. Now to get some stickier tires so I can get some traction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •