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  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    The ONLY thing I think they could have done different... just ONE point.

    After thinking about this for a few days and trying to put myself into the shoes of a non iDevice owning person I have decided there is only ONE thing I can say I honestly think was a big mistake about the XO-1. And this is, of course, before anyone has actually driven it to know how it works.

    I think the ESC lock SHOULD be programmable via Castle Link from a computer. It sounds to me like the lockout IS actually a function of the ESC since switching to a different TX doesnt remove it. If this is the case I think an update to the castle link software would have been realistic. And if you think about it, could have accomplished exactly the same goal as the iDevice lock out. Castle link could have incorporated the same warning and liability safeties as the iDevice app... It is also something you have to physically buy separate from the car so they could still say the car is limited out of the box. Furthermore, it would still be true that only a more advanced, and therefore capable, user would own a Castle link adapter.

    On top of all that, it would have opened up the car to a whole group of people who simply don't want to use the traxxas radio without leaving them unable to re-lock the car before re-sale. As it is now, if you DONT have an iDevice but you get the car unlocked, swap radios, sell the stock radio and want to sell the car, you physically CANT re-lock it.

    So there you go, the only bad thing I can or will say about the car at this point. At first I figured castle would sell this ESC on their own anyway so all this would come available at some point. But then I realized that there are dozens of versions of Castle ESC's that are rebranded by other companies with different features than their castle counterparts that Castle DOESNT sell their own version of (example: HPI's waterproof Vapor/sidewinder ESC). So its very likely THIS ESC WONT be available from castle on its own... meaning they would have NO reason to update their own castle link program to adjust its functions...
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  2. #2
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    And thats where the liability issue would come in again....i see what your saying but the idevise also acts as tune on the go so you dont even need to stop the car to tune it, with the castle link you would, but good point

  3. #3
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    Im not saying castle link would be BETTER than the iDevice... just that having the ability to do nothing more than turn the limiter on and off with castle link would have satisfied countless people who are currently unhappy about needing an apple product to get full functionality out of the car in stock form. IMO the iDevice is still well worth it JUST as an addition to your TX alone. Forget about it being an iPod... JUST connect it to your radio and leave it there... its well worth all the cool features you get. But if you were so dead set against doing that... you'd still get to use the car to its full potential and it would be HARDER to do that using your iPod or iPhone.
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  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. TAT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    I think the ESC lock SHOULD be programmable via Castle Link from a computer. It sounds to me like the lockout IS actually a function of the ESC since switching to a different TX doesnt remove it. If this is the case...
    According to Castle, "The speed is locked down by the ESC and RX using a variety of methods. It's not a training mode -- 100% throttle is available out of the box. Just can't change the pinion and go faster without an unlock." "The lock/unlock is controlled entirely by the Traxxas app (this is for liability reasons...). BUT, it gives you a good excuse to buy an Iphone. Of course you could always borrow one just to unlock it. Go to the AT&T store, grab an iphone off the display, download the app, agree to the waiver, and unlock... "
    Last edited by TAT2; 12-02-2011 at 10:30 PM.
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  5. #5
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    I bet it's linked to the speed sensor that reads the drive shaft. That would be the only way to allow full throttle but still limit top speed regardless of gearing.
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  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. TAT2's Avatar
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    That would make sense.
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  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Cameron's Avatar
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    Until I see it driving somewhere other than TMS I cant say yay or nay, I do like the car however. I wouldn't be building one based off the ERBE if I didn't like onroad racing and parking lot destroying, truth told I have 2 large scale on road with the recent purchase of the gtp2e, heck i even have an RC replica of a Dale Jr car that is 3' long lol.

    But I'm definitely on the same page as you Pave about needing the iphone or ipod to unlock it.
    Seems some of the "whaaaaaaaa booo hisss fail" crying would have been eliminated if it wasn't limited to the iphone/ipodtouch only.

    Right now that's the only flaw I can see in the car.... well that and its 2" too long. I cant run my Corvette C6r body on it. lol
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  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. TAT2's Avatar
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    Brief review on Cnet (of all places): http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...lled-supercar/
    Last edited by TAT2; 12-02-2011 at 11:04 PM.
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  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    It's more of a inconvenience then a actual fail. But it is what it is now.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2.0 View Post
    It's more of a inconvenience then a actual fail. But it is what it is now.
    Have to agree with that, calling anything I have seen so far from this car a "fail" just seems wrong to me.Just the choice of word that bugs me here I can understand the point.
    Last edited by Dadx2mj; 12-02-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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  11. #11
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. TAT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    So its very likely THIS ESC WONT be available from castle on its own... meaning they would have NO reason to update their own castle link program to adjust its functions...
    True, but they are updating their version of the MMM. "The MMM is now shipping with the new BSC011 MOSFETs. We've been shipping with the new FETs for about two months. But there are still a lot of NTMFS4901 based MMM controllers out there. How much difference between the old and new FET? Not as much as you might think, because the copper and capacitors in the MMM are the main limiting factors. The power handling difference between the old and new MMM MOSFETs is less than 5%. Add a capacitor pack (like on the Traxxas version) and the power handling goes up by about 15%."
    AND with regard to the Castle Link Live... "We will be publishing a .dll for the Castle Link Live protocol soon. We are talking to Futaba about S-Bus support right now, and also talking to Futaba about implementing the Castle Link Live protocol. (which will allow data to be displayed on the TX in real time -- current, battery voltage, milliamps used, etc.)" "The radio can talk with the ESC directly through Castle Link Live, and get on-the-fly data and setup information and change ESC settings.
    But the receiver can also talk to external stand-alone sensors as well."

    And finally: "Hey Guys,

    Request from tech support -- PLEASE STOP calling and asking how to get an ESC with BSC011s... As I said earlier, there's no way to tell from the outside what FETs are in the ESC. The only way to get a guarantee of the getting an MMM with BSC011s is to buy a Traxxas XO-1. Right now, the BSC011 is "standard" for a Mamba Monster, but the 4901 is still a suitable sub, because we can't get enough of the BSC011 to meet production for all Mamba Monsters."
    Last edited by TAT2; 12-03-2011 at 12:02 AM.
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  12. #12
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    That's great news... Maybe castle link will get some new features. Who knows,

    Fail is a strong word... Not one I feel really fits here other than its what others are using so I joined in. Nothing on this car is truly a failure, not even close. The entire car is a major win. The castle link idea would have just been a much better option IMO. So dads right, fails too strong a word.
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  13. #13
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    this car wil be ultra light for an 1/7 scale car, i would suggest to buy a rolling chassis in the future en put youre MMM combo on there and you wil break 100MPH for sure, just wacht youre temps closer.

    you wil save up half a grand! and have almost the same fun.... just my 2 cents.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevez26 View Post
    this car wil be ultra light for an 1/7 scale car, i would suggest to buy a rolling chassis in the future en put youre MMM combo on there and you wil break 100MPH for sure, just wacht youre temps closer.

    you wil save up half a grand! and have almost the same fun.... just my 2 cents.
    I actually agree, the rusty 100mph guys are doing 100 with the smaller 1515, so I expect this to hit 120!

  15. #15
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    You build an rc car to this magnatude and computerize it, thats just awesome and for people to say "you have built the baddest, fastest rc ever" but you failed?????? is absolutely retarded... The only fail here is the people knocking The biggest thing in rc...who do you think you are??

  16. #16
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    Exactly... again... fail was the wrong word to use. Im hoping a mod will change the title for me as requested.
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  17. #17
    Traxxas Employee sofasticantseeit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    Exactly... again... fail was the wrong word to use. Im hoping a mod will change the title for me as requested.
    Consider it done.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    Exactly... again... fail was the wrong word to use. Im hoping a mod will change the title for me as requested.
    ^^ good man.

  19. #19
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevez26 View Post
    this car wil be ultra light for an 1/7 scale car, i would suggest to buy a rolling chassis in the future en put youre MMM combo on there and you wil break 100MPH for sure, just wacht youre temps closer.

    you wil save up half a grand! and have almost the same fun.... just my 2 cents.
    that's a good idea.. may not have to spend a grand to get there???
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  20. #20
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    Again, from my personal opninion, traxxas did build a great new product, and alot of people wil buy this, even for 1100, the price is not that bad:
    Roller 350
    esc/motor 400
    2x hq lipo's 200
    new 2.4 ghz system 150 (o.k. 80 bucks for an used ebay ipod toutch)
    The Erbe was not much cheaper in the beginning.

    The thing is, again my opinion, most of us have lipo's, and a radio, so i hope this car will be avalible as a non rtr.

    I only think you can achieve the same half a grand less if you already have some stuff.

    i hope parts will not be expensive, i want those wheels bad!

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    The problem is was you can swap out electronic put yours in and might hit 100mph. But this car is design to be the very best out of the box. There is a reason why Traxxas didn't put a simple MMM in this. There a. Reason why they didn't just drop a normal off the shelf motor. This car will do 100mph all day long without breaking a sweat. Off the shelf electronics might hit 100mph but I can guarantee you'll run into heat issues.
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  22. #22
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    i remember one of the traxxas employees stating that he got his to do 115 m.p.h.
    so this one time I ate a lipo.......

  23. #23
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    If you change out the RX/TX before unlocking the car it stays that way so I assume it happens in the ESC. Caslte initially thought you could use a PC to do it so it seems Castle is limiting the unlock to the TQi and iDevice on purpose, a DLL will be released and hopefully the protocol will be documented (maybe not this piece?) so at some point I expect it will be done without an iphone/touch.

  24. #24
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    I think the ipod iphone dock is for safety reasons on the XO-1 because 50mph is still pretty dang fast
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  25. #25
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    The ESC and Rx speak with each other to get telemetry and tuning information back and forth, I'm sure the unlock is just piggy-backed on that. Full throttle is supposed to be full throttle even with the limiter on, I'm pretty sure they just set up the software to have an RPM limiter (Castle has had customizable RPM limiters on their plane/heli ESCs for years) and the unlock simply turns that part of the tune off the same way you could turn off the Punch Control. Makes sense to me, and wouldn't be tough to implement. It would be interesting to GPS it with the nanny on, then drop the pinion gear down about 5 teeth and GPS it again. That should confirm if it's an RPM limit or not.

    Perhaps someone could hack the Castle software so those of us who have been running high-powered RCs for years can enjoy it as it was meant to be without having additional proprietary hardware? Perhaps have an option to sign a waiver before purchasing? Just throwing ideas out there. I've got a 35 pound gas Buggy that does ~40 MPH, a 16 pound Truck that has the old CC version of the XO-1's motor and has currently been verified to do 57 MPH with moderate gearing, a plane that tops out around 120...I think I know how to be responsible with something that is much much more than a toy car.

    I completely understand the limiter, but my 3.3 4-Tec never had one. The VXL Rustlers/Bandits will do 70+ out of the box and they don't handle nearly as well as this should, there was no limiter on there (other than Training Mode, but how many people use that on their own truck). Include 4s lipos instead of 6s and gear it down and you can solve the speed problem. Include an "optional speed gear" like what Traxxas has done on many of their other models and show what it can do on 6s. I dunno, the limiter is the #1 thing that puts me off of this car. The telemetry thing with the radio is absolutely amazing and a total game-changer and I understand why it has all been done the way it has, I guess it's a good thing they didn't design it for me Despite my insignificant opinion they'll sell thousands of these and I'm sure they'll be a blast, just not sure that I can bring myself to shell out that kind of money for it.
    Last edited by unsulliedspy; 12-04-2011 at 09:16 PM.

  26. #26
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    It was confirmed by a traxxas employee (peterV) that the car is SPEED limited. it uses a drive shaft mounted sensor to calculate speed. You get full power with no limiting until you hit 60mph... then the limiter kicks in.

    It was also confirmed that the speed limiter is NOT training mod and that the truck STILL has a separate training mode that is programmable through the iDevice software and is speed specific. Meaning you can set a specific speed (any speed you want) for the training mode. This feature will also be available using this radio on other traxxas vehicles and a pre made vehicle specific sensor set. This is an amazing idea, now when you buy your kid a stampede VXL you can move him up in 5mph (or whatever you choose) increments instead of just %50 power and %100 power. Pretty advanced stuff IMO.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    It was confirmed by a traxxas employee (peterV) that the car is SPEED limited. it uses a drive shaft mounted sensor to calculate speed. You get full power with no limiting until you hit 60mph... then the limiter kicks in.

    It was also confirmed that the speed limiter is NOT training mod and that the truck STILL has a separate training mode that is programmable through the iDevice software and is speed specific. Meaning you can set a specific speed (any speed you want) for the training mode. This feature will also be available using this radio on other traxxas vehicles and a pre made vehicle specific sensor set. This is an amazing idea, now when you buy your kid a stampede VXL you can move him up in 5mph (or whatever you choose) increments instead of just %50 power and %100 power. Pretty advanced stuff IMO.
    OK, that makes sense. Probably used the same sensor that sends speed telemetry back to the radio and tied that into the governor? That's mighty tricky!

    I know it isn't training mode, if I'm not mistaken that's actually patented and/or trademarked by Traxxas and is basically a different throttle profile where this is a limiter. The same Traxxas employee also said there WILL be training mode available through the transmitter though.

    All very cool, I just wish they didn't nanny us so much and leave us to make our own decisions. I wouldn't mind adding this new speed limiter to my Mini Revo for letting my friends drive. They're competent enough to handle the car perfectly in training mode and get bored with it quickly, but full throttle it's a powerful little truck and it gets crashed all the time.

    EDIT:
    Thinking out loud here, so bear with me: The ESC relies on an external sensor to measure drive shaft speed and, presumably, uses that reading to engage the limiter. What if the sensor is missing or damaged? What is keeping people such as myself from modifying this sensor to give an inaccurate reading?
    Last edited by unsulliedspy; 12-04-2011 at 10:58 PM.

  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    Let me assure you that the governor is a amazing idea for this one reason. It's a 11pound 100mph rtr RC car! I can only imagine what would happen if some kid got their hands on this without the governor. Traxxas put the common sense feature in BC lets face it...not a lot of people that are new in this hobby practice it. No offense go look into the other forums you'll see. Most newbs buy these base on the speed. No matter what it cost.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2.0 View Post
    Let me assure you that the governor is a amazing idea for this one reason. It's a 11pound 100mph rtr RC car! I can only imagine what would happen if some kid got their hands on this without the governor. Traxxas put the common sense feature in BC lets face it...not a lot of people that are new in this hobby practice it. No offense go look into the other forums you'll see. Most newbs buy these base on the speed. No matter what it cost.
    VERY true, but the same applies to those other RCs I spoke of earlier. Granted ~40 MPH doesn't sound very fast but that Buggy weighs in around 35 pounds, I don't know how much energy it has at that speed but I guarantee it won't tickle to get hit by one. Go down to my next smaller truck which weighs about 16 pounds with the batteries and everything and it will do about 60, and there's nothing stopping anyone from buying/building either of these and going full throttle into something. I used to have a 3.3 Nitro 4-tec, I don't remember what the 0-60 time was but it was capable of breaking 70 MPH out of the box and there was no limiter. The 4-Tec was also pretty heavy for a touring car and therefore handled a bit like a brick and I used the brakes more in hope than expectation that they would slow it down. The XO-1 will surely handle better and electric motors brake like crazy. Look at the VXL Rustler, for another example. 70+ MPH with a 3s lipo and an optional pinion gear in a truck that was originally released in the early 90s and based off an 80s design. Rustlers do not handle like a touring car, I've had mine up to nearly 80 before a tire blew off the wheel and sent it cart-wheeling for well over a hundred feet, yet the VXL Rustler will do over 70. See what I'm getting at? I really like the idea of the speed limiter and being able to set it for different drivers but I wish we didn't have to go buy even more proprietary hardware to unlock it. When I bought my 4-Tec I got batteries for the Tx and Rx, a gallon of fuel, and some spare glow plugs then went out and had a blast with it...

  30. #30
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    If they left it unlocked you would get 2 boxes. One would have the car in it and the other would have shinguards, kneepads, toe protectors, a pair of running shoes, and a crotch guard. The running shoes are so you can get away when you nail your neighbors Benz.

  31. #31
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    What's stopping you from nailing your neighbor's Benz in any other RC? My Rustler doesn't handle very well at all but I've got a Neu 1506 in it, conservatively geared it'll do 50 on 2s. Gear up and toss in a 3s and you've got an 80 MPH barely-guided missile that drives like a weasel after half a bottle of No Doz. Take my 1/8th scale truck up to it's top speed and you've got something that'll put a HUGE ding in your neighbor's Benz. How about that big Buggy? I've seen pictures of people that have gotten hit by them and it isn't pretty, it will break your ankle if you get hit by one and yet there is absolutely nothing keeping anyone from buying one, taking it up to full speed, and hurting someone.

    How about planes? My ~120 MPH plane is just an RTR plane that I stiffened up and tossed a big motor in, out of the box it will do about 80 MPH. Imagine the damage a novice could do with an 80 MPH plane sold totally RTR with Tx, batteries, charger, everything the XO-1 comes with. Especially around low-flying aircraft, power lines, cattle, high-rise buildings, traffic, pretty much anything that can go wrong could and yet there is still no limiter.
    Last edited by unsulliedspy; 12-04-2011 at 11:32 PM.

  32. #32
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    The difference between the XO-1 and other Traxxas models that you can get to do 100mph is that the XO-1 is advertised to do 100+mph. And it is equipped to do 100 out of the box. Unlocking it does not add anything to the car, it merely removes something. All other Traxxas models need equipment added to the cars to reach speeds near 100mph. This is why there is more of a liability issue with the XO-1. The user must agree to Traxxas' terms to unlock it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2.0 View Post
    Let me assure you that the governor is a amazing idea for this one reason. It's a 11pound 100mph rtr RC car! I can only imagine what would happen if some kid got their hands on this without the governor. Traxxas put the common sense feature in BC lets face it...not a lot of people that are new in this hobby practice it. No offense go look into the other forums you'll see. Most newbs buy these base on the speed. No matter what it cost.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanwrx View Post
    The difference between the XO-1 and other Traxxas models that you can get to do 100mph is that the XO-1 is advertised to do 100+mph. And it is equipped to do 100 out of the box. Unlocking it does not add anything to the car, it merely removes something. All other Traxxas models need equipment added to the cars to reach speeds near 100mph. This is why there is more of a liability issue with the XO-1. The user must agree to Traxxas' terms to unlock it.
    So why not continue the tradition? 70+ MPH out of a Rustler but the fine print states that you need a 3s lipo, optional speed gearing, etc. Why not keep the advertising the way it is but change the packaging. Include 4s lipos instead of 6s and you've instantly dropped the top speed and it's out-of-the-box volatility, if you will, and Traxxas could even put a smaller pinion on it to slow it down further. Making things go fast is the tough part and they've cracked it, once you've done that making something go slower is a piece of cake.

    EDIT:
    Dean: The point I've been trying to make is what makes this so much different than what we have been able to get for a long time already? You make a very good point that some other RCs need additional parts to be purchased before unlocking this potential and it is very true. However, there have been high-risk RCs around for a long time (primarily planes, but still). Sooner or later we will probably be facing government regulation because some rich kid got his hands on something he wasn't qualified to drive and had no respect for its capabilities or possible consequences but we can't stop that. I bought my plane with very little experience flying and crashed it many times, fortunately I fly in areas where there are no people and pack up and leave when people start crowding around to watch. It's just how things are, sure the XO-1 hits triple digits and that is very serious but that danger isn't entirely new to us if you think about what's already on the market.
    Last edited by unsulliedspy; 12-04-2011 at 11:46 PM.

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