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  1. #41
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    i may be wrong, the motor they may have replaced the internals, but if its stiff when it arrives tomorrow i'm not running it in my truck, and will be selling the revo i think. i'm spending on a new motor. but if the motor is fine then i will be looking for some new 6s. i hear the spcs are good too, thanks for the reply i may just get some of them!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaTuFu View Post
    Sorry to hear that. It's entirely possible that CC is making that statement due to the wide range of "standards" used by various battery companies for their C ratings. One company's 25C is another company's 30C, or worse, 20C.

    25C can work, and there are many members on here who will tell you it works just fine. Traxxas' own proprietary batteries are 25C. But buying a 30C battery will work just as well, and will possibly work better, at least for the battery's life cycle, if not the esc and motor as well.

    I bought these for my Summit but I've been using them just as much in my ERBE lately, can't recommend them highly enough (and very glad some SPC fans on here turned me on to them):
    8200mah?? crikey how long do they run for?

  3. #43
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    i mean, i could be wrong they could have swapped the internals of my motor and if they have then top marks. but if the motor is stiff like i know it was then as you can expect i will not be a happy chappy! i will post and let you know what happens. them spcs look good i've heard of them before. anyone running 6s over 5000mah spcs?

  4. #44
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    If you are refering to the stiffness of the motor shaft, then it is suppose to be that way. The stiffer the magnets the harder it is to turn the motor shaft when there is no current placed on it. You need to read a little on how electric motors work.

    And what in the world are you doing buying let alone using a 100c lipo battery? That's a waste on multiple levels.

    I have never had any issue with castle. They will repair or replace any of their products.

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  5. #45
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    IMO, a simple battery C rating suggested by Traxxas and/or CC is not going to cut it. The amperage drawn from a system is highly dependent on gearing and usage. If geared low, a lesser battery can be used with no problems. Increasing gearing for 90mph+ speed runs will stress just about all batteries. And the higher the voltage being used, the more current will be drawn for a given gearing.

    I think Traxxas should provide recommended C/Ah rating chart for both 4s and 6s, for various gearing.

    Of course, you can just get some true 50C 5000mAh batteries and be set for all cases, but it would be nice for the less technically-inclined to have a chart of what to look for.

    And for those who aren't sure if your battery is up to snuff, get a capacitor bank (check CC's page) and solder it to the ESC. It's not technically a replacement for proper batteries, but definitely helps the ESC cope.
    http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    well the motor seemed to have freed off, but i put it back in the truck ready to take to the shop, but it has made my motor very stiff its hard to push the truck forwards, and i checked the trans so it aint that. weird........
    This is suppose to be the case. The truck is not suppose to be able to be freely push without power. Its a 4pole motor with huge magnets. When power is placed on the system the polarity of the magnets are what makes it spin.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkavanagh View Post
    If you are refering to the stiffness of the motor shaft, then it is suppose to be that way. The stiffer the magnets the harder it is to turn the motor shaft when there is no current placed on it. You need to read a little on how electric motors work.

    And what in the world are you doing buying let alone using a 100c lipo battery? That's a waste on multiple levels.

    I have never had any issue with castle. They will repair or replace any of their products.

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    i'm not an idiot, i have loads of brushless stuff and i build rcs all the time. i check my revo after every run. it was free rolling before with a little torque. after the fire it was so stiff pushing it forwards that it was locking the wheels solid. not normal. i don't mean to be snappy neither lol but people on here seem to think i'm new to the hobby, i'm noit. just new to castle, and the only system i've ever had issues with. none of the vxls died on me and they were on the same branded cells and ran for over a year and still fine even after i sold them. i love my erbe but dont love the castle system so much. it might have been a faulty one but still i dont fully trust it now.
    Last edited by kevfrostbite; 12-06-2011 at 10:02 AM.

  8. #48
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    my emaxx has never freely rolled. never. you can't even turn the shaft of the motor with your hands.

    You said you have never owned a CC motor.

    VXL is not a CC

    The motor will not spin freely. What it should do is almost feel like it grabs every 1/8th of a turn or so then release then grab again. This is just because of the magnets inside the motor. Sorry if this is hard to understand, but the motor should not just spin like say a clutch bell on a motor.

    on a 4-pole motor once it is installed in the heavy truck the truck will not move unless forced to do so. ask anyone that is familiar with high quality 4-pole motors
    Last edited by mrkavanagh; 12-06-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    8200mah?? crikey how long do they run for?
    I mentioned in a different post that I'm not really sure yet. Every time we've run the trucks, mine is still going strong when we're done. 45ish minutes the last time I was running the Summit with them. Kids running off to do other stuff killed the session, not the batteries.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkavanagh View Post
    my emaxx has never freely rolled. never. you can't even turn the shaft of the motor with your hands.

    You said you have never owned a CC motor.

    VXL is not a CC

    The motor will not spin freely. What it should do is almost feel like it grabs every 1/8th of a turn or so then release then grab again. This is just because of the magnets inside the motor. Sorry if this is hard to understand, but the motor should not just spin like say a clutch bell on a motor.

    on a 4-pole motor once it is installed in the heavy truck the truck will not move unless forced to do so. ask anyone that is familiar with high quality 4-pole motors
    i was just saying none of the vxls set fire. i've had my erbe for 6 months now. i think id notice the difference in it it rolling before and not after. and i mean the truck it was always torquey, but if you shoved it hard enough it would roll for a while. after the burning if you tried to roll the truck forwards it would not roll. it was like the brakes were stuck on if you understand me?
    Last edited by kevfrostbite; 12-06-2011 at 10:35 AM.

  11. #51
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    oh, and after taking out the motor the truck rolls freely with no binding, so it isnt the truck. even the bloke at the shop said it didnt feel like it should. he inspected it and said it didn't feel right. so it aint just me.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    oh, and after taking out the motor the truck rolls freely with no binding, so it isnt the truck. even the bloke at the shop said it didnt feel like it should. he inspected it and said it didn't feel right. so it aint just me.

    well a 4 pole brushless motor installed in a erevo or rc of its size will not freely roll and will only move if you force it to which is not recommended. the motor shaft will even be next to impossible to turn with your hand.

    So i am replying to your statement where you said "i mean, i could be wrong they could have swapped the internals of my motor and if they have then top marks. but if the motor is stiff like i know it was then as you can expect i will not be a happy chappy! i will post and let you know what happens. them spcs look good i've heard of them before. anyone running 6s over 5000mah spcs?"

    It's suppose to be stiff. Period. Stop jumping to all these conclusions and bashing Castle when you haven't even received the product back and clearly have never handled a brushless motor of this magnitude. I emailed an acquaintance in the tech department at CC to help me explain this with a little more detail. i also share the link to this post with him. Maybe they will be able to help you.
    Last edited by mrkavanagh; 12-06-2011 at 12:33 PM.
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  13. #53
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    ^very good points. Also if you were trying to roll it while the motor was still wired to the fried out monster it may have been shorted out by that monster. Which will feel like the motor is applying braking force when manually rotated.

    Does the hobby shop have another ERBE motor to try to spin or push for comparison?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrkavanagh View Post
    ...It's suppose to be stiff. Period. Stop jumping to all these conclusions and bashing Castle when you haven't even received the product back and clearly have never handled a brushless motor of this magnitude. I emailed an acquaintance in the tech department at CC to help me explain this with a little more detail. i also share the link to this post with him. Maybe they will be able to help you.
    Yup. All of Castle's larger motors are what's called "slotted stator" type. This simply means each coil is wrapped around a laminated iron core, and several of these cores are arranged in a radial pattern and the magnetic field is quite concentrated at the ends of these cores. The rotor is made up of several magnets bonded to the shaft. When you spin the shaft by hand, the "notchy" feeling is where the magnets of the rotor line up with those iron cores.

    Other motors, such as the VXL motors, and Castle's smaller motors (like the CM and CM36s series) are what is called "slotless stator". The coil wires around this motor is not wrapped around anything (basically "air core") so the magnetic field is not nearly as concentrated. So, when you spin this type of motor by hand, there is much less of that notchy feeling.

    Below is a forum post from RCM where I asked Castle which is better:

    Slotted vs Slotless motor explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by RCMonster
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianG
    Speaking about motor efficiency, I've heard it said that a slotless stator design (basically an air core) is generally more efficient, but the Neus are slotted. I would think because of the slotted nature (windings wrapped around a "core") that the magnetic field would be much more focused, and wouldn't have as much flux loss. I can see that the width of the magnetic field would be a lot less in a slotted vs slotless. What are your thoughts on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pdelcast (Owner of CC)
    Depends on who you talk to -- there are those who think that slotless is better, and those who think that slotted is better. I just think you should use whatever motor design fits your application...

    Slotless motors have a larger air gap, and so, are generally less torquey than slotted motors. But they also have more space for copper, so typically have lower copper losses. Slotless motors have less inductance, so they switch at high frequency (higher RPM) better than slotted motors. Slotless motors also have virtually no torque ripple, so deliver power smoother than a slotted motor. The CM20 and CM36 motors (our standard Mamba and Mamba Max motors) are slotless because we wanted maximum spool-up speed, fast response, and moderate torque. IMO, Slotted motors don't do as well as slotless in 1/10 scale applications because the buggies and cars are lightweight, and accelerate very quickly without high torque -- and the high RPM performance and quick response make up for the lack of low-end torque (although our slotless motors generate a LOT more torque than our competitor's slotted 1/10 scale motors -- -but that's due to poor rotor design, rather than a slotted vrs slotless tradeoff.)

    Slotted motors can have very small air gaps, and so are very torquey. They can generate much higher peak torques as well, but have the advantage of higher inductance at low RPM, which helps to limit peak currents and keep temperatures lower at low RPM. Our 1515/1Y and 1512/1Y Monster motors are slotted because we wanted maximum low RPM grunt and shaft twisting torque. And IMO, slotless motors just don't do as well in a Monster Truck or big buggy as a slotted motor. Once you get above about 3 pounds or so, the slotted motors have a slight advantage.

    So, for smaller, higher RPM motors (low torque, high horsepower), slotless motors usually have the advantage. For larger, lower RPM motors, slotted motors usually have the advantage.

    So you can think of it this way: Slotless motors are like motorcycle engines -- high RPM, lower torque, high horsepower. Slotted motors are like automobile engines, low to medium RPM, high torque, high horsepower. Outrunners are like Diesel engines... lower RPM, lower horsepower, very high torque.

    All of these comparisons are relative -- the difference in practice is fairly small. We have run Monster trucks on slotless, slotted, and outrunner motors with good results. We really went with the Neu slotted design simply because it had the highest efficiency of any motor in that size that we had tried. And because of the high efficiency, it really performed extremely well.

    There are trade offs for every type of motor design. You can build a good slotted motor and it will compare very well with a good slotless motor. Or you can build a bad slotted motor, and it will compare very well with a bad slotless motor. I've seen both good and bad motors of every type.


    So the real answer is: Efficiency is the single most important thing. Efficiency is directly related to power to weight ratio. And power to weight ratio is performance. So the better the efficiency, the better the performance. Whatever motor type gives you the best efficiency in your application is the one you should use...

    I'm sorry for the long ramble...
    Probably a lot more detail than anyone cares about, but there it is...
    Last edited by BrianG; 12-06-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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  15. #55
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    I knew someone would weigh in and explain it better than I could. Lol

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  16. #56
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    i do remember when i burned up two of the 4600kv CC motors that they became very stiff. This is typical when a motor gets above it's intended temperature and burns up. It will still spin if you force it, but it does not have the correct "feel" to it... like described

  17. #57
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    I have been running 5400 mah and 20c for more than 2 years now. Never had an issue,,,
    Geared 21/54 ...top speed around 60 km/h

    Everything fine..... the lipos are a brand called Suspect

    No doubt a higher c rating is prefered but they were my first Lipos and have given juice to first my Hobbywing combo in my Erevo and for the past year my ERBE
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  18. #58
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    i have a brand new cc esc and 2200 motor unused as spares since my orig esc died the day i got the truck and when the price for motors was going up i decided to buy some spares
    i just check the motor and i can spin it with my fingers easily
    u can feel the magnets but i can turn it using my thumb and index finger if i grip it tight
    u can feel its abit tight but im pretty sure even a 10 year old would have the strength to turn it

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow View Post
    i have a brand new cc esc and 2200 motor unused as spares since my orig esc died the day i got the truck and when the price for motors was going up i decided to buy some spares
    i just check the motor and i can spin it with my fingers easily
    u can feel the magnets but i can turn it using my thumb and index finger if i grip it tight
    u can feel its abit tight but im pretty sure even a 10 year old would have the strength to turn it
    This is not a good thing. If it spins easily then it's most likely a 2pole motor and not of the higher quality like the 4pole and 6pole motors. You need to feel the stiffness of a brand new 4pole motor. My 2350kv HPI alpha star (which is made by CC) is hard to spin and my emaxx will not move unless you force it. And this is how it should be.

    2pole = easy to spin
    4pole = stiff

    If a brushless motor becomes easy to spin its because it was over heated and the magnets have become demagnetized
    Last edited by mrkavanagh; 12-06-2011 at 07:31 PM.
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  20. #60
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    Guys, it not necessarily the pole count that makes it notchy, it's whether it's slotted or slotless stator design...
    http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    which batteries do you use as i'm confused now, went to the shop today and they told me that the ******* 6000mah 25-50c lipos are no good for the revo, and tried to sell me some 4200mah orions that were only around 25c. i just want some decent lipos that wont burn my new system if i get it, and that will power my revo to its full potential. i said to the man in the shop i need some around 100c then? and he then said you dont wanna go too far with the power. but i thought these esc's could handle more than that?
    I have been running 5400 mah and 20c for more than 2 years now. Never had an issue,,,
    Geared 21/54 ...top speed around 60 km/h

    Everything fine..... the lipos are a brand called Suspect

    No doubt a higher c rating is prefered but they were my first Lipos and have given juice to first my Hobbywing combo in my Erevo and for the past year my ERBE


    I also run some different types of team orion. all a higher c rating.
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  22. #62
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    so how can I tell if my mmm motor is the crappy one
    it's black and not green so it looks just like the original
    that's in my erevo
    maybe I'll pull it out and compare the two

    but is there a way to tell if I pull it apart

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow View Post
    so how can I tell if my mmm motor is the crappy one
    it's black and not green so it looks just like the original
    that's in my erevo
    maybe I'll pull it out and compare the two

    but is there a way to tell if I pull it apart
    what do you mean by the crappy one ?
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  24. #64
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    mrkavanauh said something bout if my new mmm 2200 motor spins easily then it might be a 2 pole which is the lesser
    power one so i just need to know if there are 2 types and how can i tell
    i bought it off ebay said it was a 2200 out of a revo

    thanks

  25. #65
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    No, the stock ERBE black motor is a 4 pole slotted-stator design - the same as the 2200kv 1515 motor CC sells seperately. There may be some very slight differences, but they all should perform in a very similar fashion with similar efficiency. The intensity of the notchiness depends on several factors, but they should all have distinct notches you can feel.

    Run the motor in your vehicle. If it doesn't seem to have the power you expect, and the motor, ESC, and/or the batteries are getting warmer than they should, it might mean the rotor has become partially demagnetized and so has to pull more current to get the same performance. If this is the case, send the motor to CC and see what they say. Or, if you know the rotor is not up to snuff, you can get a replacement rotor. The heat is takes to kill the magnets in a rotor is far lower than the heat it takes to damage the coils (but is possible), so chances are the stator (motor "can" and coils) are ok. And if you're replacing the rotor, you might as well replace the two bearings at the same time - after that, you basically have a new motor.

    2 pole and/or slotless motors aren't all "crappy". LMT motors are designed this way and they are very good performers. Motor quality is not determined by the number of poles or whether it is slotted or slotless, it's the construction and materials. Thin laminations in the core (if slotted), quality magnets, proper coil winding, quality copper, etc is what makes a good motor. Quality components translates into higher efficiency, which means more of the power the motor is pulling gets transformed into usable mechanical output, and less heat on the motor itself.
    Last edited by BrianG; 12-07-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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  26. #66
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    got my new system today got the v3! and my motor is like new again the armature has been replaced and the truck now rolls freely again (until it nearly stops then the torque of the motor keeps it stopped. perfect! so you can imagine how happy i am now. even got the castle link for free. SORRY CASTLE!! and thanks for everyones help.

  27. #67
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    oh and my motor was always notchy, just after the fire it was notchy and a binding feelinbg also, which is now gone since they replaced the internals. and it is a black 4 pole motor.

  28. #68
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    even got the castle link for free. SORRY CASTLE!!

    humm....
    Would you go flip my truck back over??

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87 GN View Post
    even got the castle link for free. SORRY CASTLE!!

    humm....

    lulz, gotta love the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducati777 View Post
    lulz, gotta love the internet.
    humm........
    Would you go flip my truck back over??

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    I would love to see a link cable in my box when it arrives back to me from castle. Been about 7 weeks so far getting a replacement. It's the least they could do but I highly doubt they would.


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  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    got my new system today got the v3! and my motor is like new again the armature has been replaced and the truck now rolls freely again (until it nearly stops then the torque of the motor keeps it stopped. perfect! so you can imagine how happy i am now. even got the castle link for free. SORRY CASTLE!! and thanks for everyones help.

    Glad to hear .....so it will be christmas after all :-)
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  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by revomikey View Post
    I would love to see a link cable in my box when it arrives back to me from castle. Been about 7 weeks so far getting a replacement. It's the least they could do but I highly doubt they would.


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    honestly i got the castle link in the box with the esc and some mamba stickers. i didnt get the cable but i already got loads of them they're a pretty standard cable.
    Last edited by kevfrostbite; 12-08-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwi View Post
    Glad to hear .....so it will be christmas after all :-)
    yes indeed my friend. now just gotta get me some traxxas lipos and off she goes! i was going to get some others that were mentioned in this thread, but for the sake of if it happens again i'm gonna go with traxxas. i'm also gonna buy an outerwears cover for the snow thats coming........
    Last edited by kevfrostbite; 12-08-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducati777 View Post
    lulz, gotta love the internet.
    lol i was just sayin sorry for all the moanin i did on here when i was let say 'in a bad mood' but they got my replacement quicker than i ever imagined and they deserve credit for that. i took my truck to the shop where i got it, they inspected it and removed the system, then a week or two later the shop phoned me up and sent me the replacement. couldn't have gone sweeter.

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    honestly i got the castle link in the box with the esc and some mamba stickers. i didnt get the cable but i already got loads of them they're a pretty standard cable.
    Sweet. I hope I am that lucky.


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  37. #77
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    Was it accidentally included or part of the package?


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  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by revomikey View Post
    Was it accidentally included or part of the package?


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    i have no idea, just opened the esc box and it was in a slit in the foam at the side of the esc. i was wondering if it now comes with the v3 monster?

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by revomikey View Post
    Was it accidentally included or part of the package?


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    Mamba Monster ESCs come with huge 6.5mm gold plated bullet connectors for reliable power transfer and simple installation. We’ve even thrown in a Castle Link USB adapter* so you can tame the Monster by adjusting the really useful settings using your Windows PC. i found this on castles website, they do now include the LINK with their monster esc's. quality! i hope you get yours too mate.

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevfrostbite View Post
    Mamba Monster ESCs come with huge 6.5mm gold plated bullet connectors for reliable power transfer and simple installation. We’ve even thrown in a Castle Link USB adapter* so you can tame the Monster by adjusting the really useful settings using your Windows PC. i found this on castles website, they do now include the LINK with their monster esc's. quality! i hope you get yours too mate.
    Outstanding. Thanks for the info. Still waiting.
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