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  1. #1
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    Brushed or Brushless VXL?

    Many of you guys may think I'm crazy, why go brushed when every one is going for the brushless set up. Well here is why I'm asking.

    I recently got a MERV from a friend who got out of the RC hobby, I was not really looking for one but he made me a deal I couldn't walk away from it. The MERV turned out to be a big hit with my 2 year old boy, he just loves chasing it around and also enjoys getting chase by it. I immediately found that on a 2S LiPo it was too fast for inside the house and in training mode it would cog too much especially when trying to go over my boy's toys that he puts in front of it, so I have decide to sell it and replace it with a Summit.

    So as you guys can see, the Mini Summit will probably spend the majority of its time for the next few years running inside the house, since we have a full size Summit for outside. Top speed is no concern, the main thing I'm looking for is that it can be cog free at crawling speed. I can get a new brushed Summit for $200 or a not too old VXL Summit for $230 in very good conditions. What do you guys recommend? Is the VXL Summit not as jerky as the MERV (gearing ratio?) ?


    Pablo
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    For slow crawling, which is basically what you want; I would go brushed.

    No cogging is the biggest reason, controllable speeds; especially with a flipped transmission, and with that combo; no need to worry too much about him driving through a wall.
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  3. #3
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    Brushless would be fine too with a transmission flip with stock gearing for inside the house and some crawling.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by suprafanatic26 View Post
    Brushless would be fine too with a transmission flip with stock gearing for inside the house and some crawling.
    I disagree I flipped my tranny on my brushless summit and I couldn't really crawl inside I would definitely to with the brushed for what u r doing

  5. #5
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    What do you you guys mean in regards to flipping the transmission.

    I had several suggestion to just turn my MERV into a summit so I Started to do a part comparison. My main focus was the gearing, The MERV is at 9.0 with 28/50, the Summit VXL is at 15.75 with 16/50, and the brushed Summit is at 11.09 with 25/55.

    If I installed a brushed set up (that someone here has on the market) and did 24/50 for a 10.50 ratio, would I be OK, the chart says I should do this only with two batteries in parallel. Are both batteries require due to the amperage requirement at that ratio, and could I get away with it since I'm not really getting on it? I have plenty of batteries, LiPos and Nimhs and the connectors but would like to keep the weight down.

    Next would be the wheels, $40 average from ebay. Suspension wise, I think I would leave it alone, save the money on the driveshafts plus it currently has RPM arms all around and all red aluminum rods. The wheels and ESC & motor combo will put me around $100, at this rate I rather sell and start fresh with a new Summit.

    I just saw that the brushed version only comes with the AM radio, is this correct or am I looking at old adverticements, other wise I have to get a rx since I have a couple of Link tx's.

    Pablo
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJoeTheShowX View Post
    I disagree I flipped my tranny on my brushless summit and I couldn't really crawl inside I would definitely to with the brushed for what u r doing
    Did you change your gearing at all on the pinion/spur?

    Also did you lock up your diffs, or put thicker oil in them to help out with the slippage?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmadrid13 View Post
    What do you you guys mean in regards to flipping the transmission.
    Here is a link on flipping the transmission..

    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...r-larger-tires


    Quote Originally Posted by pmadrid13 View Post
    I just saw that the brushed version only comes with the AM radio, is this correct or am I looking at old adverticements, other wise I have to get a rx since I have a couple of Link tx's.
    I believe you are correct, I am pretty sure it is just the VXL that comes with the 2.4, and the brushed is the AM..

  8. #8
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    this is going to sound strange and if anyone knows why this is please share.
    What i found was, when i ran my summit (brushed motor) with an AM radio/reciever and the tranny flipped, crawling over stuff and slow driving was much more controllable than when i run it with the 2.4 set up. With the 2.4 set up everything became too twitchy and quick. It was noticably different and i liked the AM set up when i was climbing driving round slow.
    Am i just tripping or is there a reason for this? Im thinking the signal from the AM gear was outputing to the rest of the gear slower than the digital would.

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJoeTheShowX View Post
    I disagree I flipped my tranny on my brushless summit and I couldn't really crawl inside I would definitely to with the brushed for what u r doing
    Joe is right... you would still get cogging trying to crawl a stock brushless MERV or Summit even with a flipped transmission.


    I am not sure about LINK vs AM... first I have heard of this phenomenon.
    Last edited by Jimmie Neutron; 10-31-2011 at 10:14 AM.
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  10. #10
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    I'm going to swap those gears just to see how it handles. I was to test drive a brushed Summit today but that will not happen, another one that gets sold. I had no intention of buying it but my friend promise me I could drive it so I could make up my mind, that Summit needed a lot of work but it ran OK.
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Neutron View Post
    I am not sure about LINK vs AM... first I have heard of this phenomenon.
    hum i was looking at your for a bit of an explenation. phenomenom..? and it came out of my head, its highly likely im just tripping ill bust out the ol' AM again once my mervs is in bash mode and the summit goes back to lil'climber!

  12. #12
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    What 2.4 system were you using? I noticed something similar in my MERV. When I had the stock AM system in it it would twitch and cog, but when I dropped in my Spektrum 2.4 system in it it worked amazingly better.

    If you can, check the 2.4 system's setting and adjust the setting. Specifically on my DX3 I had to adjust my Travel Adjustment Settings..

  13. #13
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    I did some more homework, the transmission and differential are the same on the MERV and on both Summits. Have not had a chance to swap the gears, I'll probably do that this weekend and finally installed all the steel hollow balls.
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  14. #14
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    Yep, all 1/16 models have the same tranny

    Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

    I went ahead and did a gear swap in the summit and installed a 19t pinion. It is still pretty quick inside the house. But outside it's not as quick obviously, but I have tons of torque. And still no cogging or anything. Runs smooth as butter.

    Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cooleocool; 11-06-2011 at 01:44 PM. Reason: merge

  15. #15
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    Wink

    i find it totaly dosnt matter i would go brushed for indoors at crawling speed you may not want to flip[ the transmishon with brushed it may be good for you
    Last edited by cocorc199; 11-04-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  16. #16
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    Is it the 550 motor that comes with the brushed version and will I need any thing else beside the ESC for my MERV.

    I have a set of 2.2 ProLine Bead-Locs for the MERV, will I bee able to mount the Summit tires on them? (half the price for tires only compare to wheel and tire combo)

    Pablo
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  17. #17
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    Flipped the gears and installed the hollow steel balls. It did minimize the cogging quite a bit.

    I have also acquired a 550 Titan with the big block mounting hardware from a very helpful member, I will do the swap over after I try a 16T pinion with a set of Summit tires on the VXL system.

    For future referance can any one tell me if the Summit tires will mount on the 2.2 Pro Line Bead-Locs that are made for the MERV.

    Pablo
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    How about giving that member some credit?
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Neutron View Post
    How about giving that member some credit?
    I will definitely give credit, the wonderful member that has being helping me and dealing with my non stop questions is no other than the great Jimmie Neutron.

    Do you know him?

    Sorry, Jimmie, I forgot to ask if it was OK for me to post your name.
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Jimmie Neutron's Avatar
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    It is fine with me
    Thanks for the props!!


    BTW; shipped out today.
    Last edited by Jimmie Neutron; 11-07-2011 at 06:15 PM.
    Whatever it is I just said... I could be wrong.

  21. #21
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    I was about to post an idea but then i realized its probly been said 5 times!!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocorc199 View Post
    I was about to post an idea but then i realized its probly been said 5 times!!!
    It does not matter if it has been said before, you saying it again only reinforces that idea more, so feel free to express your idea/s, after all I'm here to learn.

    Pablo
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

  23. #23
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    I wish that I would be able to help a little more, but I tried to look some info on the tires and rims you just asked about..

    BeadLocks Width = 1.6"

    Tires Width = 2.2"

    Stock Wheel Width = 1.18"

    As long as the diameters are the same, you just want to make sure that the widths are close, it does seem like a close fit though, it will be a little closer to the outside wall of the wheel than the stock wheel it seems though.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmadrid13 View Post

    For future referance can any one tell me if the Summit tires will mount on the 2.2 Pro Line Bead-Locs that are made for the MERV.

    Pablo
    The link to an on-line retailer has been removed. Please review Rule 11 of the Traxxas On-Line Community Rules, which prohibits the posting of links to on-line retailers.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 11-10-2011 at 04:25 PM.

  24. #24
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    I've been in and out of the Pro-Line web site looking for information on the bead locks, but my knucklehead never bother scrolling down where the information is located.

    The 2.2 Titus Bead-Loc wheel is not a split design and is a three pieces bead-lock.

    Specs:
    Outer Diameter: 2.2" (56mm)
    Width: 1.4" (36mm)
    Offset: 0.5" out

    Pro-Line states that it will "ONLY" work with two of their tires, Dirt Hawgs (which is what is on my wheels right now) and Road Rage (which I also have in like new conditions, but have no intention of ever using and they will find them selves on eBay in the next couple of days). It also states, below the "ONLY" note, 1/10 Rock Crawler tires, but no specific listing on tire model. So I did what I should have done from the beginning, I called Pro-Line. The Rep stated that the Summit tires would go on but most likely would break loose under high speed, and he reinstated that there were only two tires that work best and they are, the Dirt Hawgs and Road Rage, as listed on the site.

    So, next item to be order is a set of Summit wheels w/tires. Would any one have an extra set they want to sell?

    Pablo

    Thank You, for looking up the information. This was my first time using Tower Hobbies, I like how they list size dimensions.

    Pablo
    Last edited by cooleocool; 11-10-2011 at 04:26 PM. Reason: merge
    Summit; ERBE; E-Slayer; MERVs
    Wraith; AX10; RX10

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