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  1. #1
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    Are shocks worth upgrading? What about CVD?

    I trashed my rally's front end. Need new chassis, front bulkheads, steering linkage, an a arm, and broke a shock cap. Recently fixed up some stuff in the front- those held together.

    A) Is it worth upgrading to the fancy shocks? 7066x or 7061x?

    B) Also, how do CVDs improve handling?

    So far, I've upgraded the 1) turnbuckes (RPM)- great up grade.
    2) 7018 x- aluminun push rods- not sure. seem ok
    3) 7028x steel balls- not sure. seem ok.
    4) 7038x- alum toe links- great upgrade in my opinion.

    Thanks guys!

  2. #2
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    Do you have any pictures of the carnage? How in the world did you trash so many parts at once?

    I have the GH shock bodies which seem okay, but they are leaking right now. It looks to me like you need aluminum shock caps, which I know the-toyz sells on ebay.The traxxas aluminum shocks still have plastic caps, I believe.

    I don't think CVDs will do anything for handling. Those are an upgrade if you're twisting or ruining the stock driveshafts.
    KB Rally
    Savage Flux HP

  3. #3
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    I have upgraded shocks, both the bodies and the ti-nitride shafts and honestly, I don't think its made any difference. The shocks on these cars aren't getting abused the way they do in a merv or mini slash. Same with the cvd's. I don't think you should eve have trouble with the driveshafts on a rally so cvd's aren't a huge necessity or performance enhancing upgrade. Go for ball bearings in the steering and rockers, motor heat sink with fan and the toys shock leveling plate.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
    Motley Crew, 1SQ

  4. #4
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    Here's the wreckage.

    I went full speed into a parked car tire. Straight on, with 2s lipo. I've recently started hooking up the batteries in parallel so perhaps the added mass made the damage worse. At any rate, It was not the first time i've hit stuff pretty bad. Hit the same parked car a few nights earlier and managed to set its alarm off! oops. no obvious damage at the time, except tears in the body. I really need a new body soon!


    http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMAG0528.jpg
    http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMAG0527.jpg

    http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee365/bigblackken/

  5. #5
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    Hi Pavementsurfer (and anyone else who cares to answer),

    What does the shock leveling plate do for you?
    What about bearings in the rockers and steering? My udnerstanding is it somehow makes the steering smoother. I'm no expert. BUt the steering seems ok to me. Is the stock set up wobbly? Will the bearsing take up the slop in the steering?

    And I ask the question in another thread, but in case it isn't seen--> obviously a heat sink and fan will cool the motor. But if you keep the temp below the recommended levels, what is the role of those cooling things? (what temp should you stay below anyway?) I can't seem to find it in the manual.

  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    If you check your shocks often youll find air bubbles tend to form at one end due to the angle at which they sit. The levelling plate simply brings the inboard end of the shocks upward so they sit level with the rocker and prevents air bubbles from building up at one end. Worked great for me. Maybe not as important for some though.
    The bearings in the rockers make a big difference in how the smooth the suspension works. No binding, no sticking. Excellent and cheap upgrade. In the steering the bushings will wear quickly and allow a bit of slop. They also are not smooth. Adding bearings to the steering will help reduce and prevent excessive slop and keep the steering operating as smooth as it possibly can. Driving a car like the rally is about precision, so having the steering work as smoothly and quickly as possible is very helpful.

    I posted an answer about temps and fan in your other thread.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
    Motley Crew, 1SQ

  7. #7
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    Thanks Pave! I thought I thanked you in a thread somewhere but now I can't seem to find it. Just in case I didn't,.... Thanks again!

    I was looking at your older posts and I thought the hoodscoop thing was pretty cool. Do you still like it?

  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I cant run my Rally right now simply because theres 2 feet of snow everywhere. Pretty much right when I got the hood scoop completed was when it got REALLY cold here so I cant honestly say just how much of a difference it made to my temps. Other guys who have done scoop mods have seen large drops in temps... and their scoops are like 1/4 the size of mine (hehe) so I cant imagine mine wont work just as good.
    Thanks for the thanks... I appreciate it and am always happy to help however I can... or at the very least, direct you to someone who can.
    Pede, Summit,
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  9. #9
    Marshal Dadx2mj's Avatar
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    IMO any shock benefits from an aluminum body although it is sometimes very hard to see or feel the difference. Aluminum bodies give you a more consistent set up and the aluminum is less prone to wear and scratches on the bore the piston travels through. The difference is probably very small but it is there IMO. I bought a set of STRC aluminum shock bodies for my MERV they were only $17 for all four and the stock parts fit them well.
    BlindMan Racing
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigken View Post
    What does the shock leveling plate do for you?
    Never seen or heard of one.

  11. #11
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    By chance does anyone have a pictures of these leveling plates installed ? I can understand why it would be done, but can't picture what it looks like installed.
    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarinM View Post
    By chance does anyone have a pictures of these leveling plates installed ? I can understand why it would be done, but can't picture what it looks like installed.
    Thanks
    I think it would change the shock angle that was engineered into the car, and mess up the handling.
    I'd like to see them too, as I've never heard of them or seen them anywhere.

  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    Here ya go:





    Havent run the car with them one (too much snow) but my "bench feel" of them is that the shocks work better with them on. They are adjustable with 3 shock mount positions and they definitely help with the air buildup in the shocks. That I CAN tell from it just sitting here.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
    Motley Crew, 1SQ

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    Havent run the car with them one (too much snow) but my "bench feel" of them is that the shocks work better with them on. They are adjustable with 3 shock mount positions and they definitely help with the air buildup in the shocks. That I CAN tell from it just sitting here.
    Who makes those?

    Hate to tell you this, but the type of shocks in these cars are supposed to have air in them and nothing will stop the air from getting in them. Once the shocks start moving from going over any bump or through a turn, the air will be dispersed throughout the shock whether you use these or not.

  15. #15
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    Great pictures Pavementsurfer ! Question and general comment. Which tires are you running... looks like HPI ? How do you like them ? also on the Shock levelers. Now I understand how they install. It appears to be a pretty simple concept and could probably be made with some simple hand tools. I also see something else that we may benefit from. With some simple calculations and the multiple mounting points, the internal shock limiter could be removed allowing more travel ? Or maybe the additional travel would not be of any benefit ?

    Thoughts anyone ?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarinM View Post
    With some simple calculations and the multiple mounting points, the internal shock limiter could be removed allowing more travel ? Or maybe the additional travel would not be of any benefit ?

    Thoughts anyone ?
    Increasing the travel of the suspension would just raise the ride height and center of gravity, and make the car more tippy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    Havent run the car with them one (too much snow) but my "bench feel" of them is that the shocks work better with them on. They are adjustable with 3 shock mount positions and they definitely help with the air buildup in the shocks. That I CAN tell from it just sitting here.
    One other thing, not bashing you, but I've seen a lot of things that sure looked good on the work bench and that passed people's "bench feel" that didn't pan out. So I don't see this as reason to be advising a product to people that you haven't actually tested in the real world.

  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    My advice was based on the fact that when the car sat on my shelf for even a day, the shocks would collect so much air (im not saying I know HOW this happens, just that it DID happen) the first 1/4 of travel was all air. No damping at all. After installing these parts this problem has completely disappeared. My opinion is that the product works for whats its stated to do. If changing the mounting point for the chassis end of the shock makes a HUGE difference in how the suspension works, ill post that up as well when I get a chance. If air bubbles are a problem for someone, this product is the solution.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
    Motley Crew, 1SQ

  19. #19
    Marshal Dadx2mj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justfasstenuff View Post
    One other thing, not bashing you, but I've seen a lot of things that sure looked good on the work bench and that passed people's "bench feel" that didn't pan out. So I don't see this as reason to be advising a product to people that you haven't actually tested in the real world.
    I would say that since Pavmentsurfer actually has the part and installed it in his car he is in a better position to offer his opinion than some one who has never seen or had any experience with the part like yourself.
    BlindMan Racing
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by justfasstenuff View Post
    Increasing the travel of the suspension would just raise the ride height and center of gravity, and make the car more tippy.
    Understood, but if you change the angle of the home made version, you could keep the same ride height while increasing the down stroke travel is what I was referring to. We certainly don't want to do anything to raise the center of gravity on this thing.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavmentsurfer View Post
    My advice was based on the fact that when the car sat on my shelf for even a day, the shocks would collect so much air (im not saying I know HOW this happens, just that it DID happen) the first 1/4 of travel was all air. No damping at all. After installing these parts this problem has completely disappeared. My opinion is that the product works for whats its stated to do. If changing the mounting point for the chassis end of the shock makes a HUGE difference in how the suspension works, ill post that up as well when I get a chance. If air bubbles are a problem for someone, this product is the solution.
    The HR shocks you have mounted have little pinholes in the top of the cap of them, similar to the stock shocks, that allow air to leak inside them as well as expelling excess oil when you fill them.
    But it just doesn't make sense that changing the angle of the shock, or that gravity, would somehow affect the ability for air to get in the shocks.
    The shocks on these cars are viscous shocks, so they're supposed to have a little air in them to work properly.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadx2mj View Post
    I would say that since Pavmentsurfer actually has the part and installed it in his car he is in a better position to offer his opinion than some one who has never seen or had any experience with the part like yourself.
    No offense, but that makes no sense.
    What you're saying is that if Pavementsurfer stuck a piece of dog poop on his car and said it made it handle better, that he's then an authority on the subject?
    What makes sense is that the Traxxas engineers would know better, and have tried different shock mounting positions and discarded them for good reason, than somebody whose level of experience with a product is that they say its "bench feel" is good.

    Not trying to start a fight here, just trying to have a reasonable discussion about whether something works or not. Last I checked you can't tell if something works on a car while it's sitting on the bench.
    Last edited by justfasstenuff; 01-06-2011 at 12:04 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarinM View Post
    Understood, but if you change the angle of the home made version, you could keep the same ride height while increasing the down stroke travel is what I was referring to. We certainly don't want to do anything to raise the center of gravity on this thing.
    Not sure exactly what you are trying to say here, but if I am understand what you're saying if you increase the downtravel of the shocks you will naturally raise the center of gravity. Maybe you're trying to say something else or I just misunderstood you.

  24. #24
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    Let's see if I can explain myself better. Where the shocks attach (Fixed end) puts the movable end of the shock at a certain distance from the rocker. If you angle the bracket either further back or wider, it would increase that distance keeping the same ride height, if you remove the limiters. If you don't remove the limiters, it would drop the ride height. Does this make sense ?

  25. #25
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
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    Ive tried dog poop... it really makes the car handle better... and that was in real world driving test... not just on my bench.

    The pin hole in the cap vents air from the top of the shock bladder... not from inside the shock body. Otherwise oil would leak out all the time. There should be no air below the shock bladder... these shocks are sealed. The pin hole is to allow the bladder to flex up and down as the shock strokes... I understand how the shocks work... what I dont understand is why when they sit, in their stock position, air seems to collect inside. As I said before, I dont know why this happens... maybe it only happens to me... maybe not (im assuming not due to the fact this product is available) what I do know is that after my car sits with the shock leveling plates installed... no air collects. To me, this product works. Again, as I said above, if the handling or ride of the car is negatively effected... ill post my impressions and opinions at that time.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
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  26. #26
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justfasstenuff View Post
    ... The shocks on these cars are viscous shocks, so they're supposed to have a little air in them to work properly.
    Certainly, the oil is viscous, hence the different viscosities of shock oil available.
    Quote Originally Posted by justfasstenuff View Post
    ... so they're supposed to have a little air in them to work properly.
    Not in bladder compensating shocks.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigken View Post
    I trashed my rally's front end. Need new chassis, front bulkheads, steering linkage, an a arm, and broke a shock cap. Recently fixed up some stuff in the front- those held together.

    A) Is it worth upgrading to the fancy shocks? 7066x or 7061x?

    B) Also, how do CVDs improve handling?

    So far, I've upgraded the 1) turnbuckes (RPM)- great up grade.
    2) 7018 x- aluminun push rods- not sure. seem ok
    3) 7028x steel *****- not sure. seem ok.
    4) 7038x- alum toe links- great upgrade in my opinion.

    Thanks guys!
    i got both the shocks do good and the cvd's are just for looks

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