Results 1 to 40 of 40
  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074

    Brushed version...

    I wonder if a new traxxas brushed powerplant is in the works, as the titan will not stand for the rigors of 4wd?
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  2. #2
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    London,KY
    Posts
    316
    How well would it work to shove a 775 in it?

  3. #3
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    With an evx? Tight fit, sounds interesting...
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  4. #4
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Windsor Ontario Canada
    Posts
    862
    I wish they would make a sensored version of the vxl motor for it. After all, the vxl esc can already operate it. That would be pretty sweet!
    Traxxas start making dirt bikes! :)

  5. #5
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nitro
    I wish they would make a sensored version of the vxl motor for it. After all, the vxl esc can already operate it. That would be pretty sweet!
    Seconded. I hope for sensored brushless system to gradually replace sensorless ones or at least being regularly offered as an option.
    As for brushed system I for one can't wait to see them finally extinct once and for all!!
    I can't see a single reason why in 2010 we should still have brushed hobby grade kits...
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  6. #6
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    862
    Fuga: Don't hold your breath. History has actually gone the opposite direction - the original brushless systems were all sensored, and we've moved to sensorless because they're less expensive and more reliable. They're also usually more efficient and powerful, because sensorless controllers by nature continually adjust the timing to always provide peak performance. Basic sensored controllers handle timing the same way a brushed motor does, with the user rotating the motor end bell to set timing.

    Then again, now that a few companies have released hybrid systems with sensored startup and sensorless high-speed operation, maybe we'll see the trend reverse. Like you, it's something I'd love to see happen.

  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    I think at a price point level, the brushed version needs to be made. Some cant afford to come up with $400 for an rtr.
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  8. #8
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Aramid: yes all very true but as it's been the case with brushless vs brushed, sensored systems are reducing the gap in terms of cost and reliability compared to sensorless ones. With hybrid systems there wouldn't be even appreciable differences in top end performance anymore.
    Personally, I would gladly trade some top end performance to get better drivability at low speeds. Sadly nowadays the enphasis seems to be on top end performance ALONE...
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    I like the novak/mmp setup racing my 2wd. Just easier to get from turn to turn.
    Now racing 4wd, that setup seemed underpowered, and my laps were better with the stock vxl over the sensored setup.
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  10. #10
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by rag6
    I think at a price point level, the brushed version needs to be made. Some cant afford to come up with $400 for an rtr.
    With today's industrial costs difference between the two systems there isn't a significant gap anymore (percentage-wise when compared to the total cost of kits at the Stampede 4x4's sector of the market) so this argument in favor of brushed systems as been almost totally overcome.
    Brushless kits cost a fair bit more also because they usually include also other items like 2.4 GHz radios and/or other tune-up options.
    Moreover, if you think about the TCO in the medium to longer term (and the longer runtimes and the reliable, constant, vastly superior performance you enjoy from day one) I believe we can say today that the BL systems are already overall more convenient
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  11. #11
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by rag6
    I think at a price point level, the brushed version needs to be made. Some cant afford to come up with $400 for an rtr.
    have you ever put a titan 12t in a slash 4x4? i did and the motor was cooked in just a few minutes. if you put that much stress on a brushed motor then you will simply wear the brushes down very very fast.
    Slash 4x4 MMP-HV 5.5
    Slash Sidewinder SC 3800kv

  12. #12
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Busselton, Western Australia... but where in Busselton... that's what we do not know...
    Posts
    597
    Personally, I wouldn't be caught buying a brushless system ever again! They just arent as much fun or as durable. If I'm buying a new RC I'm going to do it the right way. Say, if I was to decide on a E-revo to sit beside my Rusty VXL, I would be the Brushless one. For me, the extra money is well worth it!

    Even as I say that, some people want something cheaper and a little less powerful to start with. I did and my first RC was a Duratrax Evader ST Pro (still have it as backup) I bought 4 years ago, it's how I built up my talent for driving. That's when you buy a hyper car...
    Last edited by Rustin'RedRusty; 10-30-2010 at 07:08 PM.
    Can you break a Rusty?
    Umm...No...No, you can't.

  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    Quote Originally Posted by FSTR4X4
    have you ever put a titan 12t in a slash 4x4? i did and the motor was cooked in just a few minutes. if you put that much stress on a brushed motor then you will simply wear the brushes down very very fast.
    I don't know if you read the first post or not, but I said:
    ...as the titan will not stand for the rigors of 4wd
    I would not even think of putting that motor in there lol. You must have wanted to kill it lol.
    The E-Revo comes with a brushed setup, and runs pretty good at about 2x the weight. My E-sav hits 40 all day long on brushes.
    Brushless is easier, but brushed is not useless in the proper application.
    I was wondering if Traxxas would come up with a new motor worthy of the 4x4, because the 12t titan is not. If I could get a roller version, I would have no problem running a maxx brush setup on 4s, but I do not see traxxas offering a 14v+ system for this truck. So the only other option would be to come up with a new 7-cell brushed powerplant. It just seems unlikely. Seems that maybe the Pede 4x4 will only available to people with $$$
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  14. #14
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by rag6
    Seems that maybe the Pede 4x4 will only available to people with $$$
    Well, the Stampede 4x4 is $399 (launch price, bound to come down once it actually starts shipping), how much less do you think a brushed version would/should cost?
    I mean, look at the price of a 2WD brushed Slash (which is the oldest version of the series and is at its lowest price ever)...
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  15. #15
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. pavmentsurfer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11,145
    Again, like has been said, this is a moot point as a cheaper brushed system has no hope of powering this truck. Theres a very good reason theres no such thing as a brushed slash 4X4... unless your powering the truck with a 775 theres no way a brushed motor will run this thing without dieing very quickly. It would have to be geared like 6/90...
    Before you say "then put a 775 in it"... remember, the 775 needs to be run by an EVX2... by the time traxxas puts an EVX2 and a 775 in the pede 4X4 it would cost as much as the VXL system. I just dont see how anyone can think a brushed version is even a realistic possibility.
    Pede, Summit,
    ERBE, Rally,
    Motley Crew, 1SQ

  16. #16
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Abbotsford BC, CANADA
    Posts
    2,237
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustin'RedRusty
    Personally, I wouldn't be caught buying a brushless system ever again! They just arent as much fun or as durable. If I'm buying a new RC I'm going to do it the right way. Say, if I was to decide on a E-revo to sit beside my Rusty VXL, I would be the Brushless one. For me, the extra money is well worth it!
    Lol, you made my night
    Lead, follow, or get out of my way!

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    $300 for the 4x4 brushed. Do you think its impossible to get a 550 that would hold up?
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  18. #18
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by rag6
    Do you think its impossible to get a 550 that would hold up?
    Of course not. The standard Titan 12t could pull it off, and all the people saying otherwise are being overly dramatic. It's just a matter of gearing the motor low enough that it's not being overworked. Yes, the truck might be slow. Heck, it's possible they didn't even design for low enough gearing to pull it off. That doesn't mean the motor is totally incapable - you could run a Revo on a single Stinger if you could gear it low enough, if you were willing to deal with the lack of speed (think crawler speed).

    However, I agree that it's not likely they'll bother. I'm pretty sure they're getting the cost of the brushless systems down to the point where it's not worth doing anything else. The Slash 4x4, their most similar model, has been out for a year and has never gotten a brushed variant.

  19. #19
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, Ohio
    Posts
    733
    I through a monster 14t in my slash for fun and it runs pretty good actually
    Orange Powered
    Novak BL

  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,652
    A good quality brushed motor in the 15 to 17 turn range would run very well in the new truck, however keep in mind that heat would be a real problem for extended runtimes, so appropriate cool downs would be required. And motor maintenance would go up significantly due to the heat. Other than trying for curiosities sake (and I am not against that) I don't see the point, not when the VXL system is so much better than any brushed system for most applications.

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,038
    I've actually had less issues on brushed vs brushless
    I had a hot 12T Orion motor in my MF2 truck and would run it on 2s and for fun 3s packs..
    the motor would get very hot on 3s because of my gearing and would actually melt the solder off the leads of the motor, but the motor never demagnetized
    and that truck was pushing mid 50s on 3s
    First MiniSlash
    HK6XL Revo 4s 60mph Amsoil dealer

  22. #22
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Venice, FL
    Posts
    2,784
    I would think the 775 brushed motor, with some gearing experiments, could be good for the Monster Truck version aka Stampede 4x4, but probably slow for the Slash 4x4. Or the really good DeWalt motor with replaceable brushes maybe. I emailed Dan at Kershaw a while back to see if he had any plans to have a different brushed system, but he said he was too busy with what he currently stocks...

    This is a good topic, as we all like to see people make things work, that are different from Factory. Look at the great kits from Kershaw that rely on brushed.
    The other issue is not necessarily will it ever come from the factory brushed, but if you have a nice heavy duty brushed system already, and you buy a roller, then price wise, you can have a brushed system that is way less than factory price. I for one would love to see some brushed alternatives, from people that already have an appropriate ESC and HD brushed motor !
    3905 E-MAXX

  23. #23
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Venice, FL
    Posts
    2,784
    Oh yeah I forgot, a good reason for a brushed version would be just to kep the price down, in case you already have a Novak Havoc/550 system etc., already, and you are one of those that simply pull the stock VXL out first day. Plus a good SLOW system is how a noobie should start anyway, how many new kids get a system that fast, and hit a tree at 50mph... fun over.
    3905 E-MAXX

  24. #24
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    I could try 4s with an evx and revo titan on my slash 4xmt. I just dont see traxxas putting 2 6 cells in that chassis.
    BT: very good point..
    I think that an xl5 would be fine 7 cell. Just a motor is needed.
    Titan 600?

    EDIT: These SLOW systems are still miles ahead of where we started in electric...
    Last edited by rag6; 10-31-2010 at 08:47 PM.
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  25. #25
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by aramid
    Of course not. The standard Titan 12t could pull it off, and all the people saying otherwise are being overly dramatic. It's just a matter of gearing the motor low enough that it's not being overworked. Yes, the truck might be slow. Heck, it's possible they didn't even design for low enough gearing to pull it off. That doesn't mean the motor is totally incapable - you could run a Revo on a single Stinger if you could gear it low enough, if you were willing to deal with the lack of speed (think crawler speed).

    However, I agree that it's not likely they'll bother. I'm pretty sure they're getting the cost of the brushless systems down to the point where it's not worth doing anything else. The Slash 4x4, their most similar model, has been out for a year and has never gotten a brushed variant.
    I am 100% positive that the titan 12t cant run a 4x4. i have run one in one and it died in the following minutes. i had it geared 12/54 which was as low as would fit, it was slow, it got hot, and it smelt really bad. and before i ran it, it was a pretty fast motor for stock class.

    for brushed you would need a 775 which wouldnt fit, or a dewalt motor or something.
    Slash 4x4 MMP-HV 5.5
    Slash Sidewinder SC 3800kv

  26. #26
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by rag6
    $300 for the 4x4 brushed.
    And that's my point. $99 (which will be no doubt less, anyway) is the difference between those "with $$$" and those without?!?

    AND:

    - spares (ESC and motors excluded, of course) are the same price (I mean if you can't afford to buy a BMW at full price and you barely manage to buy one at a 20% discount I doubt you can afford to maintain it afterwards)
    - you would soon start using those "saved" $99 to replace motors anyway...

    AND:

    $300 buy you a MUCH LESSER truck than $399. How does it really make economic sense?
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  27. #27
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by BT_EMT
    Oh yeah I forgot, a good reason for a brushed version would be just to kep the price down, in case you already have a Novak Havoc/550 system etc., already, and you are one of those that simply pull the stock VXL out first day.
    That's a good case for selling rollers then, not kits with only marginally cheaper and even less useful ESC/motor combos.

    BTW, I for one would love to see Traxxas and the other makers starting to sell 2 stages "quasi-RTR" kits:
    - a full assembled kit (with painted and trimmed body and all) but no radio
    - a full assembled kit (with painted and trimmed body and all) but no radio and no ESC and motor

    What I really didn't like was seeing Traxxas adding a battery and a charger to their RTR kits. Just an added cost and practically useless to anyone but the total beginner.


    Plus a good SLOW system is how a noobie should start anyway, how many new kids get a system that fast, and hit a tree at 50mph... fun over.
    That's what the training mode is for!!
    Last edited by FugaPrecipitosa; 11-01-2010 at 04:55 AM.
    Stampede VXL, E-Maxx MMM, Summit (soon Tekin RX8)

  28. #28
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by FSTR4X4
    I am 100% positive that the titan 12t cant run a 4x4. i have run one in one and it died in the following minutes. i had it geared 12/54 which was as low as would fit, it was slow, it got hot, and it smelt really bad. and before i ran it, it was a pretty fast motor for stock class.
    That doesn't mean the motor can't handle any 4x4, it just means that particular model of truck can't be geared low enough to suit that motor. The lower the gearing, the less work the motor does. If you gear low enough, it ends up like a crawler - the gearing does all the work, and the motor is practically just spinning as though it weren't even connected to the truck.

    Again, I say: The Titan is capable of running a 4wd truck if the gearing can be adjusted low enough and if you aren't looking for much speed. It's not going to be a satisfying experience, but the motor does offer enough power. It remains to be seen whether the new gearing on the Stampede will be low enough to allow it.

  29. #29
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    West Palm Beach Fl
    Posts
    4,054
    Quote Originally Posted by aramid
    Fuga: Don't hold your breath. History has actually gone the opposite direction - the original brushless systems were all sensored, and we've moved to sensorless because they're less expensive and more reliable. They're also usually more efficient and powerful, because sensorless controllers by nature continually adjust the timing to always provide peak performance. Basic sensored controllers handle timing the same way a brushed motor does, with the user rotating the motor end bell to set timing.

    Then again, now that a few companies have released hybrid systems with sensored startup and sensorless high-speed operation, maybe we'll see the trend reverse. Like you, it's something I'd love to see happen.
    Actually. Today alot of advancments in bl has been with sensored. Turbo and timing boost are mainly for sensored motors. And for the people saying brush is more reliable then bl you haven't bought a good bl system.
    Last edited by Emaxx2.0; 11-02-2010 at 04:16 AM.
    Simply the best. The beautiful Traxxas SRT and TCP

  30. #30
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    862
    I think a better way to look at it is "sensored is finally catching up with sensorless." In fact, most of the new features attached to modern sensored controllers are nothing more than a sensorless mode. Sensored starts very smoothly, but has fixed timing. Sensorless, on the other hand, has continuously variable timing as a side effect of the technology (it'd actually be nearly impossible to create a sensorless controller without it), which is the reason they can be so much more powerful and efficient. The fancy timing boost and hybrid systems basically start the motor with sensors and then switch to sensorless operation to get the best power.

    Which is why I've got my eye on a Novak 550 and a Castle Pro for this truck...

  31. #31
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,038
    it would be cool to see what a 775 could do in this chassis
    First MiniSlash
    HK6XL Revo 4s 60mph Amsoil dealer

  32. #32
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    How would you get it to fit?
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  33. #33
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Townsville, Australia
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    it would be cool to see what a 775 could do in this chassis
    go the whole 9 yards and get a 14.4v dewalt, at least u can replacement brushes for it, u cant do that with the 775
    erevo, ubuntu.com

  34. #34
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    PM me if ya wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex!
    Posts
    13,074
    will it bolt up?
    Wanna bash at Greenwood Bashplex in Pittsburgh ???

  35. #35
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by dtnel
    Wait a bit and get a roler, which we al know will be on flea bay within a month or two of them shipping.Might as well throw a mamba in the truck if thats possible or a Novak setup thats a little tougher than the vxl setup.

    Wait a little while after they start shipping and some companies will create packages like novak did with the slash 4x4 and the ballistic motor. You wont feel like you wasted your oney then.
    4x4 slashes were up on ebay as rollers the day after they came out.
    Slash 4x4 MMP-HV 5.5
    Slash Sidewinder SC 3800kv

  36. #36
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,038
    Quote Originally Posted by stinger30
    go the whole 9 yards and get a 14.4v dewalt, at least u can replacement brushes for it, u cant do that with the 775
    Dewalt power, hmmmmm?
    First MiniSlash
    HK6XL Revo 4s 60mph Amsoil dealer

  37. #37
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    138
    hey i just wanted to let every one know that this truck can run with the triton and do it pretty well i might add!! i had to take out the vxl after it stopped woking(3 Packs-stock) i left the 11 tooth on it and ran a 2s lipo and it seems to be doing just fine!! Now i don't go trying to kill it i just dive it "normally" if there is such a thing. lol i'll keep posting and let everyone know when it dies!! i'm going to do all the normal maintenance just to see how long it will run!! oh and it was a brand new triton allso!

  38. #38
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Venice, FL
    Posts
    2,784
    I believe you mean Titan, not Triton !

    Is it the 12T 550 Stampede version, or the Emaxx 550 ?
    3905 E-MAXX

  39. #39
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    154
    I really enjoyed all the thoughts and comments!!!learned a lot lol thanks

  40. #40
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by BT_EMT View Post
    I believe you mean Titan, not Triton !

    Is it the 12T 550 Stampede version, or the Emaxx 550 ?
    yeah thats what i meant! lol.. but yes its the 12t TITAN and as of this post its still running , and with no heat problems either..

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •