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Thread: V-twin summit?

  1. #41
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    If it is possible that diby 2000's idea would work, I might be willing to try it.
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  2. #42
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    or a brushed setup, dual 14.4v dewalt motors

    http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...396505-21.html

    use a dual erevo motor mount part#5690.needs to be modifed a bit to make the dewalts fit

    im just not 100% sure if the stock traxxas esc will run the dual motors.it will run the kershaw setup and they are dual motors.
    erevo, ubuntu.com

  3. #43
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    you could run a Novak sensored motor with the VXL sensored esc - but the truck is still heavy for this application to be successful for long. I think quandiak did this in his experimentations - then moved on. A brushed "dual" Dewalt would be interesting, but very low run times. But what torque!!!!! The the twin VXL ideas have been well documented and in detail.
    Last edited by noir522; 10-28-2010 at 10:16 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by diby_2000
    Sorry I forgot about that.
    But maybe you could get some other sensored motors and try it? - I'm sure the ESC is sensored.
    The VXL will run a sensored motor, I have experimented with a VXL/Novak 7.5 HV setup. it was ok, but in order to stay cool enough it needed to be geared down to a point where it is not really any faster than the 775, it was very smooth however. The Novak 6.5 might be a little different being that it is 3500Kv compared to 3000 Kv of the 7.5.

    IMO based on personal experience a truck the size and weight of a Summit needs to run on at least 4s Lipo or 14 cell Nimh, if you want any more power than stock and stay reliable.

    I also tried the Novak 7.5 HV with the Novak HV pro ESC, for some reason the Noval ESC was not smooth at all, it studdered terribly at lower speeds, although not as bad a cogging, really just annoying.

    The best ESC I have tested by far is the MMPro with the Novak 7.5 motor. the programmable options on the MMPro are absolutely amazing. I have it geared for 32 MPH, so far I have dunked it, bashed it, and all out abused it. without fail, or overheating. see my build thread for more info.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinger30

    im just not 100% sure if the stock traxxas esc will run the dual motors.
    not a chance
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  6. #46
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    Thanks quadiak. That is very helpful. So do you think that if I do go brushless, I should not use the novak esc's? Also, the current setup that you are using (the one you really like), would 14 cell Nimh work with that? Or would it put too much strain on the batteries and/or shorten run times a lot? Also, any way to water proof it? I know you said you have dunked it, but I would want to be safe.
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  7. #47
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    See youtube for water proofing. Most folks take the esc apart and cover the circuit boards heavily with plastic dip - leaving the heat sinks exposed.

    Scriner just stuck his esc into a box and plactic dip the opening to the bax (as well as the wire holes) and it also did well

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    Thanks quadiak. That is very helpful. So do you think that if I do go brushless, I should not use the novak esc's? Also, the current setup that you are using (the one you really like), would 14 cell Nimh work with that? Or would it put too much strain on the batteries and/or shorten run times a lot? Also, any way to water proof it? I know you said you have dunked it, but I would want to be safe.
    If you like to crawl the MMPro is by far the better ESC, that being said The Novak system is far cheaper and works ok, the Novak is also a direct bolt in replacement for the EVX2, which is kinda nice. If you want to start cheap I would go for the Novak system first, mostly because it costs almost as much for the 7.5 motor alone as the complete system.

    The Novak worked quite well on Nimh packs, Run time with Nihm packs was similar to the stock setup. I tried Nimh packs with the MMP just yesterday, but it would barely move, I believe this can be attributed to the LVC being on so I will need to retest later on.

    Castle claims their ESC's are water resistant to the point of splash proof. I would assume the MMPro could be water proofed the same way as the MMM, check out squirrelrod's vid.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  9. #49
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    Thanks quadiak. Does that novak system work well at bashing too? Would it give me slightly better top speed? Will it give me a lot of extra torque for crawling?
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    Thanks quadiak. Does that novak system work well at bashing too? Would it give me slightly better top speed? Will it give me a lot of extra torque for crawling?
    Tons of torque.

    With 15t pinion and 8.4 Nimhs I had it going about 45 MPH, but it was running too warm, I went down to 12T around 35 MPH seemed to be the sweet spot, and is plenty of speed for the Summit.

    play around with this RC calc to figure out gearing and top speed etc. just use the E-Revo defaults and 7 inch tires if you are running stock tires.

    there was a couple guys water proofing HV pro esc's a while back, havent heard any feed back lately.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  11. #51
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    Wow, that sounds awesome! Just to make sure, you are talking about the novak esc and motor right? Not you current MMpro and novak motor. Also, you said the MMpro was much better than the novak at crawling, but does the novak still do crawling well? I love the crawling abilities of the stock 775, so I don't want to lose those abilities. Thanks again.
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  12. #52
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    Since the Novak is sensored it should crawl really well when coupled to a sensor capable esc such as the Novak esc or MMpro. I've never tried one, but if it is even close to the absolute butter smoothness of a Tekin Rx8 then crawling will be no problem.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    Wow, that sounds awesome! Just to make sure, you are talking about the novak esc and motor right? Not you current MMpro and novak motor. Also, you said the MMpro was much better than the novak at crawling, but does the novak still do crawling well? I love the crawling abilities of the stock 775, so I don't want to lose those abilities. Thanks again.
    Yes I am talking about the Novak/Novak combo. I crawls very well, it just made a kind of studdering sound that annoyed me, didn't cog just seemed to make a weird noise. The VXL and MMPro are both butter smooth with the same motor. I didn't play with the settings much either, I will see if I can find some video for ya.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  14. #54
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    This one I am pretty sure was the Novak/VXL nothing with the Noval ESC, sorry.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  15. #55
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    So how does that vxl/novak combo work? That wasn't running on two 7-cell Nimh's was it? What speed/power?
    It looks like if I want to go brushless, I would get the novak system. That way I've got all the speed I want, I retain my crawling abililities, I can keep my Nimh's, and it is cheap. Now I just need to find a way to waterproof it. Thanks so much quadiak.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    So how does that vxl/novak combo work? That wasn't running on two 7-cell Nimh's was it? What speed/power?
    It looks like if I want to go brushless, I would get the novak system. That way I've got all the speed I want, I retain my crawling abililities, I can keep my Nimh's, and it is cheap. Now I just need to find a way to waterproof it. Thanks so much quadiak.
    The VXL ESC is only good up to 3s. It doesn't perform that well on Nihm and like I said before I don't believe 3s is enough voltage for a big truck like a summit unless you dont mind gearing for roughly the same top speed as stock. I will try to do some more testing in the winter, when temps are cooler.

    Personally I would choose the Novak ESC over the VXL. I like a top speed around 30 MPH.

    Just a word of warning, the Novak HV stuff doesn't have a very good reputation around these forums, for reasons that go back beyond the time I have been in this hobby. I choose to ignore the warnings and do this build. So far it has been excellent, but in no way can I vouch for the reliability of the system beyond the 15 or so runs I currently have on my setup. I didn't run a BEC with the Novak and it seemed fine until I put 2 giant Hi-Tec digital servos in my rig. I failed to heed the warning signs and it went up in smoke, literally.

    One other thing I would recommend, even though it seems unnecessary, would be to rewire the Novak ESC similar to the way a MMM is wired in series. The series wiring on the Novak seemed to kill one battery a lot faster than the other, I assume this is due to a not quite adequate internal BEC. I would be to help you out with this.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by quadiak
    ...One other thing I would recommend, even though it seems unnecessary, would be to rewire the Novak ESC similar to the way a MMM is wired in series. The series wiring on the Novak seemed to kill one battery a lot faster than the other, I assume this is due to a not quite adequate internal BEC. I would be to help you out with this.
    The Novak ESC is series together internally like the EVX2 and can't be wired like the MMM without use of a external BEC. Even then it may not work and burn up the ESC.

    Is Novak discontinuing the HV series? Tower lists it that way, but maybe Tower is just going to stop selling them. Novak has a bad rep for poor customer sevice if something goes wrong.

    The other problem with the Novak is that it was never designed to push around a 13 pound truck and the only reason it can manage to do it is by gearing it down. Adding the optional sintered rotor is recommended for running in a heavy truck.

    Really the only sensored true 1/8 system available is the Tekin Rx8, but the price point goes up. It's really not that much more after you add in a sintered rotor and external BEC to the Novak or a Novak motor + sintered rotor + MMpro. Only other option for more power with great crawling ability is the Dewalt mod or KD twin 700ho, but the latter being heavy to an already heavy truck.

  18. #58
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    The Novak is series wired internally, and I may be wrong, but since the instructions for hooking up a 2s system have you splice or jumper one of the battery leads together, I assumed you could still splice one side together then simply run both batteries through a series loop like the MMM does. If this method still requires adding an external BEC, then I wouldn't bother doing it. I would run it the way it is, and consider adding a BEC only if the pack on the internal BEC side consistently has a greater discharge. Athough in my experience an external BEC is a good thing added to any system if you want to see the servos perk up and meet their true abilities

    The Novak HV series is being discontinued I believe, but it is being replaced by the Ballistic 550 motor, which appears to be nearly identical.

    All the updated Novak HV motors come with the optional sintered rotor, and like discussed previously if geared for around 30 MPH it is more than sufficient. If trying to get 40+ MPH the Novak system is definitely not for you.


    "NOTE: For original HV Brushless Motors that have a 1/8" output shaft (discontinued rotor item #5912), it is recommended to use the #5924 HV Brushless 5mm Upgrade Kit, which includes a 5mm HV Sintered Rotor and Lightweight Front End Bell and Bearing."

    So I do agree that the Novak may not be a perfect system, but I have faith in it, as long as it is used within reason. It is certainly not the equivalent of the MMM or Tekin, but IMO it is more than enough for a Summit
    Last edited by quadiak; 10-30-2010 at 09:04 AM.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  19. #59
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    Okay, so just a recap. If I get the Novak system, I am running Nimh, and I want to gear it just to get 30mph, is there anything else that needs to be done to the system? Should I rewire or put in an external BEC?
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  20. #60
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    If you upgrade to high power servos which you likely will and just to take load off the esc. I'm looking at one for the future
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann
    If you upgrade to high power servos which you likely will and just to take load off the esc. I'm looking at one for the future
    Ya, what he said

    seriously if you run Nimhs, I would leave it alone. You can't really over discharge a Nimh, unless you are crazy enough to keep trying to make it go with obviously dead batteries. The Novak's internal BEC seems to be enough to power all the summits stock servos, unlike the MMPro or VXL. Both of them require a BEC to be added externally.

    If you eventually switch to Lipo and start using the built in LVC you might want to add a BEC at this time to prevent over discharging one pack. Or like Jamann said if you upgrade your servos.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  22. #62
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    Alright, so I think I have made up my mind. I will get the novak system. Now I just need to waterproof it (I figure that out eventually). And so the stocks spur and 12t pinion is going to be the best gear setting? And If I don't get the novak HV soon enough, and I have to get that Ballistic 550 motor, will it work all the same as the HV?
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  23. #63
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    stock spur and 12t works well for me. As far as the ballistic motor, the specs are the same, you would be best to email novak for an accurate answer to that. check out the HV stuff on the Novak store page. it shows the Ballistic motor sleeve even fits the HV series
    The HV systems have been on discounted price for a while, you should be okay. unless cubs buys them all first
    Last edited by quadiak; 10-30-2010 at 11:12 PM.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  24. #64
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    Okay, so you said the novak HV 7.5T Pro studdered really bad at low speeds, but still crawled well. As good as the stock 775? And you said it made an annoying sound. What exactly did it sound like (I just want to know what it sounds like so I don't think that something is wrong). How long do you think those novak HV's will still be available? And what do you mean by the ballistic motor sleeve? Is that a cover or heatsink for the motor (I know, that is a stupid question. I should already know that).
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  25. #65
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    We are talking about the novak HV pro 7.5T right?
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  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    Okay, so you said the novak HV 7.5T Pro studdered really bad at low speeds, but still crawled well. As good as the stock 775? And you said it made an annoying sound. What exactly did it sound like (I just want to know what it sounds like so I don't think that something is wrong). How long do you think those novak HV's will still be available? And what do you mean by the ballistic motor sleeve? Is that a cover or heatsink for the motor (I know, that is a stupid question. I should already know that).
    The Novak system crawled better than the 775. even more control at low RPM. The sound is the studdering I am talking about, they are one in the same thing. I can't tell you how long they will be on sale for, I have been watching the price remain pretty much unchanged for about a year, some online shops are still asking around $300 for them as well. The sleeve is simply the cover that slides over the motor, I was just presenting an example of the similarities between the ballistic 550 and HV series motors. The combo does come with a heat sink for the motor, and fan for the ESC, and a plastic cover for the extra motor mount hole on a E-Revo or E-Maxx install. They also have refurb HV motors listed on the novak store I linked to above for I think it was $64.99. You might want to consider picking up one of those and going straight to the MMPro ESC.(just a thought)
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  27. #67
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    But is the HV pro 7.5T the system that you would recommend? And you said that the novak systems got bad reviews from a lot of people. Do you think I will be fine if I just run Nimh's, and keep all the other electronics stock?
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  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8
    But is the HV pro 7.5T the system that you would recommend? And you said that the novak systems got bad reviews from a lot of people. Do you think I will be fine if I just run Nimh's, and keep all the other electronics stock?
    Yes I think you will be fine.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  29. #69
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    Alright, novak HV Pro 7.5T comin up! (in the somewhat near future). Thanks for all your help. That means everyone that took the time to answer my stupid questions. At least I won't have to ask them again. I take it by your last post that you do recommend the 7.5.
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  30. #70
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    What's the difference between the remanufactured 7.5T motor and the older one? And do you think I would have enough power/speed/acceleration to do a backflip with this system in my truck? (just curious because I like to do tricks with my cars)
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  31. #71
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    Hello , I m new in that forum !!! I got a Summit and just finish to put a Vtwin VXL in it !!! The 2 reasons that i choose that are :

    1 - The waterproof of the system ( everybody already know it !!!)

    2 - Because the VXL have a 1/8 shaft and it give more option to tune my gear ratio !!! I didn t find a pinion gear on 32p smaller than 12 teeth with a 5mm shaft !! But with a 1/8 , i can go up to 9 or 8 teeths !!!

    For my set up , i decide to put 11 teeths pinions that give me on the 1 st gear a ratio 89.32 : 1 and on the 2 nd gear 32.25 : 1 !!!!

    I did some test and i m happy with it !!! I got 2 Lipo 3s 5000 mah from kershaw design !!! All the rest of the setup i d made it like i saw it on the forum !!!

    1 st test , top speed on high gear : 32 MPH , not bad !! Remember it s a Summit , not a racer !!!!!
    2 nd test , top speed on low gear : around 10 mph !!! , doesn t really matter , because on low gear u don t looking for speed !!

    3 rd test slow speed drive , Because i m not a serious crawler and i know that the summit , for me, it s more a go everywhere truck than a crawler, so i did some obstacle and it go very well , the torque is very good , but don t stop spnning the motor , or they begin cogging , but with that in mind , u can woik with it !!!!

    Beside all that , i d check the ESCs and Motors temps several time !!!! I did and lot of full throttle run in a deep wet grass zone !! the ESCs temps got at around 90 F and the motors go at around 125-130 F !!!

    Run time depend on what i do !! Full throttle grass run , about 15-17 mins , And on the low gear and some kind of low speed fun on the rock and every kind of obstacle , i played for 35 mins and had to stop (some thing else to do ) the battery just need 1200 mah to been fully recharged !!!

    I will try it longer next time !!!

  32. #72
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    Very nice!
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  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by larsen8 View Post
    Very nice!
    I just done a video Yesterday On You Tube !!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXg3Njasrw

  34. #74
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    Awesome! That is one of the loudest electric trucks I have ever heard!
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  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzee View Post
    I just done a video Yesterday On You Tube !!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifXg3Njasrw
    Hello, can you send me detail on your setup?

    thanks

    Fred

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by foudelet View Post
    Hello, can you send me detail on your setup?

    thanks

    Fred

    I just check on that forum to see how to plug all the stuff . I put a 10 teeths pinion on each motor and keep the 68 spur . I use 2 3s 5000 mah lipo from kershaw design , great batteries and fit very well .
    Don t Go Fast if you are out of Control !!!!

  37. #77
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    The new link to my summit vtwin video is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3KRivVX31o
    Don t Go Fast if you are out of Control !!!!

  38. #78
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    Nice dual setup for the snow.
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