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  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Single Speed 2.5 tranny (Double Geared)

    My winter build is going to be powered by a O.S. 30 VG (P) engine, with that in mind I decided to try and build a single speed 2.5 tranny that might be able to hold up to that kind of power/torque without having to use steel gears.

    Here’s what I have come up with so far.

    I removed half the 1st gear from the top/slipper shaft and added another 2nd gear.


    I made a new primary shaft that is 6mm in diameter and will allow the use of larger grub screw pins to lock the gears to the shaft.

    I removed the 1st gear, standard bearing and OWB from the primary shaft and added another 2nd gear. For mock up I am using 2 of the stock 2nd gear clutch to lock both 2nd gears to the primary shaft. I am making a second gear lockout similar to Oomp’s plate that will eliminate the clutch’s also.
    I also wanted to reduce the final gear ratio slightly to have a happy medium between 1st and 2nd gear.
    I used 2 – 26T output FOC gears and mounted them to the primary shaft for the forward primary gears.


    For the output shaft I used 2 – 28T Revo FOC gears are mounted to a FOC shaft.


    That will reduce the final gear ratio slightly from the stock 28T forward primary and 26T output gears.

    Mock up shafts and gears.


    Fits perfect in the tranny case with no mods needed to the case.



    All the doubled gears will be synced together with guide pins to make sure the teeth are in sync before drilling the shafts for the grub pins.

    All the gears I used for the mock up are used but I have ordered all new gears and will do a how to when I get the new gears and the lockout plates finished if anyone is interested.

    The total weight gain is only be 19 grams, maybe less if I can remove some material from the lockout plates without loosing strength and it should be considerably stronger than a stock tranny.

    Hopefully wider is better…
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Wildman4910's Avatar
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    Snook you are the Man!
    Look out for the tree/crunch!

    LiPo? Naw NITRO!!

  3. #3
    Marshal Double G's Avatar
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    Genius!!!!

  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double G
    Genius!!!!
    I wouldn't go that far I have about 10lbs of gears and shafts to play with. Sooner or later something has to fit if you hit it hard enough
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  5. #5
    RC Racer
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    It's amazing what you can fit in those tiny tranny cases,and you have done some awesome stuff for sure! But if you don't mind me asking, whatever became of the 3-speed?
    T-maxx18tz,Rustler,T-maxx,Jato,E-revo,Merv,Slayer

  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. troutfisher9's Avatar
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    Great Idea!
    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound...

  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Trust me, I haven’t forgotten about the 3 speed. My wife reminds me at least once a week…
    I have multiple boxes of gears and shafts in the basement waiting to be assembled.
    I made a major move in June due to a job transfer and things have been quite hectic since then.
    I only have a few more parts to collect and then I can shift my focus back to the 3 speed.
    Hopefully this winter in time for winter builds.

    I did have time today to figure out second gear lockout plate.
    I used an old EZ start OWB drive gear and cut it down to fit the 2nd gear in place of the clutch, bearing and OWB. It fits quite well and will be a good template for measurements to make them out of T6-6061 aluminum.

    I removed ½ of the gear, turned it down to size and made 3 receiver slots for the 3 pins in the 2nd gear. It fits snug as a bug.
    When the steel pin keeper ring is reinstalled the plate is locked in place inside the gear.
    The center of the EZ start gear was too large for the shaft so a OWB installed in the gear works perfect for a test assembly.
    Keep in mind the aluminum plate will be solid with just a 6mm hole in the center (or larger depending on what size shaft I decide to use).
    I plan to attach the plate to the primary shaft with either a through pin like the 3.3 tranny uses for the clutch, or just use two grub screws and flat spot the primary shaft. Two grub screws may be stronger than a pin and that would also allow the use of the lockout plate with a standard 2 speed tranny with only grinding a flat spot on the primary shaft just behind the original flat spot. The aluminum round bar is ordered and should be here by the end of the week so I can make the prototype.
    Here are a few pics of the plate.




    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    Man,
    Traxxas should hire you.... You are very good with their transmissions Snook!
    Robin Williams
    He will be greatly missed...

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    If only they would let me scrounge through their parts bins.
    If anyone knows of a plastic 26T spur gear thats wider than the stock FOC gear(8.8mm) please LMK. I would really like to match the width of the doubled output shaft gears (22.10mm) with the doubled forward primary gears.
    Last edited by Snook Man; 09-20-2010 at 03:22 PM.
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    I got tired of waiting for parts and decided to make the input shaft today.
    I picked the best input gears I had which are barely used and finished the input shaft.

    I decided to use the Revo spec slipper upgrade shaft which will allow me to run the revo spec slipper and use the BL EMaxx aluminum slipper pads on the tranny.
    Everything went as planned and the shaft and gears turned out just as planned. Only 2 gms heavier than a stock friction peg slipper shaft and gears.
    Here are some pics of the process and finished shaft.
    1 down 2 to go.















    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  11. #11
    Marshal Double G's Avatar
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    Shaking my head at the inginuity of it all. Love it!

  12. #12
    RC Racer
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    Thats pretty awesome, Snook. Way to go.
    E-Maxx 3905 BL 2.4GHz
    Revo 3.3

  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Thank's guys.

    I made a new primary shaft today.
    I decided to make the shaft ¼ inch in diameter to be able to use larger diameter pins to secure the primary forward gears and not loose any shaft strength.
    I started with a ¼ inch hot rolled steel rod and turned the ends down to 6mm to fit 6x12x4 mm bearings instead of the stock 5x11x4 bearings.
    I will just need to enlarge the hole in the forward primary gears to ¼ inch to fit the shaft.
    Here’s a comparison of the stock and new primary shaft and bearings.



    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  14. #14
    RC Competitor
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    so when are you going to start to sell these as a Complete kit ?

  15. #15
    RC Racer
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    I think we should lock you in the basement and you can sell us all the mods you create . Great job!

  16. #16
    Marshal carraig042's Avatar
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    Great work as always Snook. I am impressed with your work and slightly jealous of the time/tools you have to do this. (My college apartment complex does not allow me this kind of stuff )

    -Brett
    4wd Sportmaxx 3.3
    E-Revo - Mamba Monster - Neu 4s

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterRc
    so when are you going to start to sell these as a Complete kit ?
    Probably never...
    Not to many people looking for a single speed 2.5 tranny.
    I may make a few lockout plates if it works as well as I think it should.

    Today I made the new output shaft.
    ¼ inch steel turned down to 6mm on ends.
    I purposely left the rear of the shaft long (3.5 mm) and did not cut the flat spots so that I could have some adjustment if needed between the tranny drive cup and diff drive cup. I’m making a custom length chassis and skids for the build and may need a few extra mm’s to play with.



    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  18. #18
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    The talent that some people have just amazes me! Great work Snook!
    US Navy retired, now - FAA air traffic controller

  19. #19
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    I got a chance to make an aluminum lockout plate today.
    I’m still waiting on the T6 7075 aluminum rod but had enough thin aluminum plate to double up two pieces and make a decent plate for better measurements for the final product.

    The hub of the plate is secured to the primary shaft with 2 grub screws.
    The gear is then slid over the shaft and on to the plate with the steel pin keeper ring removed. Once the plate is seated in the gear the steel ring is replaced to lock the gear and plate together.

    This plate was harder to make than the finished 1 piece plate will be but it will allow me to get much better measurements than the plastic plate would as far as thickness, diameter and what size grub screws I can use for mounting the hub to the shaft.









    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Update.

    I made a few changes to the design of the gear arrangement to the forward primary gears.
    Since I was unable to locate a wider FOC gear to match the width of the forward primary gear I decided to reduce the width of the forward primary to match the FOC width.

    As fate /luck would have It (I should have realized it sooner), after I cut the gears and was assembling them on the shaft I realized that if I was able to precisely reduce the size of the gears to match the grub screw pin holes for mounting the gears to the primary shaft I could then swap out the forward primary’s with the FOC gears and be able to change the final gear ratio back to stock if wanted. The gears came out very well and according to the calipers it should be a perfect swap. The only thing additional that was needed was a slight modification to the tranny case for clearance of the larger diameter/wider gear. Luckily I have quite a few modified tranny cases for the 3 speed that worked perfect.

    Revo FOC gear reduced in width with tail removed.


    Gears on output shaft. 16.16mm total teeth width.


    I also had to make pins for the FOC gears to sync the teeth together. The pins are an oddball size so I reduced a brass rod to fit.


    Two FOC gears = 16.16mm total teeth width.


    Everything is turning out better than I thought it would, I just wish my new gears would arrive so I can start the final assembly.
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    2nd gear locking plate design finished and sent to machinist for a small run of 20 pieces.






    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Wildman4910's Avatar
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    Lookin awesome Snook, looks to be tougher than than all get out when your done!
    Look out for the tree/crunch!

    LiPo? Naw NITRO!!

  23. #23
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildman4910
    looks to be tougher than than all get out when your done!
    I sure hope so Wildman

    While waiting on the finished 2nd gear locking plates to be made I decided to make another and do some assembly of the primary shaft.

    It is not that difficult to assemble once everything is ready but it takes a little while to prep the gears for assembly.
    1st the front locking plate is secured to the primary shaft with grub screws,


    A 2nd gear is then slid over the shaft and onto the plate.


    The steel ring keeper for the rear 2nd gear is then installed on the back of the front gear. I had to slightly dremel the inside diameter of the steel ring to fit over the rear hub of the front gear.
    The 3 holes in the front gear for the screws that attach the steel ring must be drilled a bigger diameter and completely through the gear so that longer screws can be used to screw the two gears and plates together. The diameter of the holes should allow the screws to slide through so the gears can be screwed together
    The screws also help to align the plates on the gears when assembling.


    The other locking plate is then slid over the shaft and bottomed out on the steel ring and attached to the shaft with grub screws. The notches in the plate must be aligned for the screws and the rear 2nd gear to fit.


    The rear 2nd gear is then slid on the shaft and onto the locking plate. The 3 holes for the steel ring were drilled a slightly larger diameter (so the new screws do not crack the gear when being installed) and completely through the gear.


    Remove the screws, install the front steel ring and reinstall the 3 screws to snug the 2 gears together.
    I have searched many hardware stores looking for countersunk Phillips or Hex head screws in the correct size but all I could find were the dreaded slotted heads. I most likely will have to order some countersunk screws.


    Assembled primary 2nd gears and locking plates.


    Assembled primary shaft with forward output gears. I just need to drill the shaft to secure the forward output gears for it to be complete.
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  24. #24
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Update:

    While waiting for the finished locking plates to be made, I decided to move onto the next step of the build.
    I have always thought the stock brake on the 2.5 tranny could be improved to be more efficient. I have done all the usual mods and while they do work well, I decided to try and make them even better.
    I cut an old brake disk to fit the caliper and secured them to the calipers with Nail Acrylic.
    It’s a 3 part process but is simple once you get the hang of how much liquid and powder to use.

    Here is the caliper and cut brake disk with 2 coats of primer applied.


    I used 3 balls of acrylic on the caliper. The screws made it easy to position the pad where it needed to be.


    Once the acrylic cures (only 4 minutes) I removed the overhanging parts of the disk from around the calipers with a dremel.


    The new brake pads are much thicker than stock so I will need to get new longer shoulder screws and longer springs. I will be replacing the old brake pad I used for mock up with the steel brake disk from the 4909 and slightly reduce the diameter to fit.




    The acrylic is very tough when mixed correctly and should hold up well. If not I’m sure there is an epoxy that would work. If it works, well I will make a nice new shiny set.
    I also checked the clearance on the stock chassis and it will clear with a little room to spare. I don’t know if this will be any better than the usual brake mods but you know me, I will fix it even if it’s not broken…
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  25. #25
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Installed 4909 Steel brake disk, reduced from 42mm to 38mm in diameter.
    While Bench testing, it appears to be working quite well.

    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  26. #26
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Wildman4910's Avatar
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    I may just have to try this!

    Looks really promising tho.
    Look out for the tree/crunch!

    LiPo? Naw NITRO!!

  27. #27
    RC Racer
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    All i have to say is wow. WOW WOW. Looking through the pics and seeing both second gears lined up like kind of seems like thats how you made your 3 speed and maybe that lead you to this. anyways awesome job.

  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Update:

    Since the tranny and brake are completed except for the machined locking plates (3 weeks wait approximately) I moved on to the next stage of the build.

    I did this mod on my puller Maxx and had good success except for breaking or bending wheel hex pins in the stock stub axles.
    I decided to beef up the stub axle to 8mm to be able to use a larger diameter pin for the wheel hexes.
    I started out with a solid stub axle (this one is 6mm in diameter but will be increased to 8mm to fit Tekno axle carriers which use the standard revo spec inside wheel bearing and a 8x16x5 outside wheel bearing which will fit my 8mm stub axle.

    Solid stub axle, inner wheel bearing, spacer and modified UE drive cup.
    The inner bore of the cup was enlarger 1mm to fit the dogbone ball end I am using.
    8mm UE drive cups will be used for the 8mm stub axles.


    Stub axle installed in revo spec axle carrier. There is plenty of room to spare.


    1-6mm UE diff cup with the inner bore 1mm larger is used on the diff pinion. 1-123mm HPI dogbone center of pin to pin, Axle carrier and stub axle.


    Completed assembly installed. The carriers are able to turn full lock to lock for steering without any binding and without the cross pin in the bone coming too close to the end of the cups.


    With the Tekno carriers is should be a very solid setup.


    The stub axle was left long intentionally, I plan to use the 17mm Tekno wheel hexes with a 8mm center hole which should fit the stub axle quite snug with no play. I will cut the stub axle length to fit the hexes then drill and tap a center hole to secure the hex cross pin.

    This build just keep evolving as I progress. No telling what I will end up with by spring .
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  29. #29
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    The next modification to this build will be the steering linkage system.
    I could have used the 4908 setup or the UE Gen 4, but wanted something a little different but similar.

    I use an Ofna LX1 buggy steering setup. The total height had to be cut down to fit between the chassis and the skid plate and a couple holes had to be threaded deeper.
    The bellcranks had to be reversed and the distance between them was decreased with a shorter draglink.
    The toe links also needed to be shorter due to the offset of the bellcrank arms.

    I took several attempts to get the geometry correct to have full lock to lock steering but it worked out well and is solid and smooth as butter. I have plenty of clearance between the chassis braces and bellcranks as well as the center shaft.

    Centered


    Full lock left


    Full lock right


    Integrated servo saver
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  30. #30
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    Snook... bro I only got one thing to say... you wanna be my sponsor?! haha yer makin some mean shafts. i like it. beefier is always better. if this top shaft i rigged up does't hold up. you have to help me out man. ill keep ya updated on how it goes. my first pull with the new top shaft is this friday.
    TEST YER MIGHT!

  31. #31
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Popeye,
    I have a few concerns with my stock top shaft as well. Double pinning the gears to the shaft should help in that area, but the slipper pin is my biggest concern. I figured out a way to make the top shaft a larger diameter if needed so if you continue to have a problem give me a shout. Excellent build on the revised Puller BTW, Good luck with the pull.

    I installed a steering servo on the mockup chassis to see how everything was working and ended up made a few changes.
    I widened the distance between the posts so that the anchor points on the skid plate would be slightly wider, it also adds room for a stock 3.3 center shaft if one would want to use it.
    I had to make a longer draglink so it is now 7075 aluminum. The link between the servo horn and bellcrank is also 7075.

    With everything connected a Hitec 645MG really snaps the steering from lock to lock with better torque than I expected from a 645. The servo horn moves slightly less than 3/4 “ from lock to lock which should make the steering respond excellent with a better servo.

    Full lock left


    Full lock right
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  32. #32
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    While looking through my parts bins I found something I just had to use for the steering linkage. You got to have a little fun with a build every now and then.
    Though you guy might enjoy the humor in it.
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  33. #33
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    I've honestly not seen dogbones on the A-arms before. Pretty sure the rears should be fine but I'm curious what happens on a hard turn when the A-arms flex under load....

    Then again I ask myself "Why didn't I try that?"

    Snook, your going to get the H.U.A. award for "The most ingenius thread starter of the year". If you keep this up.
    Robin Williams
    He will be greatly missed...

  34. #34
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitronaught
    I've honestly not seen dogbones on the A-arms before. Pretty sure the rears should be fine but I'm curious what happens on a hard turn when the A-arms flex under load....
    I have been tweaking the front dogbone setup since I first did it on my puller build.
    I did pop a couple bones out of the cups on the original design (modified 2.5 carriers, RPM arms and Jumbo Kong tires/wheels) but have since made more modifications to the drive cups to allow the bone to sit deeper in the cups and beveled the cross pins cup slots to allow for a steeper angle without bottoming out in the slot at full suspension travel.
    I’ve tested it pretty thoroughly with the chassis bolted to the bench, powered by a Dewalt motor while flexing the stock arms by hand without any failures. There is a fine line between too little and too much depth of the cup to prevent the bone from popping out or being too deep that the bone hits/binds in the cup slot. Now I just have to modify 4 UE 8mm drive cups which is a task to say the least.
    I’m determined to make the bones work well, if a Truggy can do it so can a Maxx.

    Snook, your going to get the H.U.A. award for "The most ingenius thread starter of the year". If you keep this up.
    I really never intended for this to be a complete build thread it just kind of evolved that way.
    I will keep adding the mods (I still have a few tricks up my sleeve) to this thread and once the final assembly starts I will begin another thread for it.
    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  35. #35
    Marshal carraig042's Avatar
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    A connecting rod as steering linkage, ingenious! haha

    -Brett
    4wd Sportmaxx 3.3
    E-Revo - Mamba Monster - Neu 4s

  36. #36
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    This may end up being the 1st ever shelf queen transmission. It will be (is) a work of art. Great work Snook
    US Navy retired, now - FAA air traffic controller

  37. #37
    Marshal Double G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carraig042
    A connecting rod as steering linkage, ingenious! haha

    -Brett
    Watch out or that thing will split.





  38. #38
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Snook Man's Avatar
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    Direct pull throttle mock-up:

    Since this build will have the steering servo on the opposite side I plan to mount the fuel tank where the steering servo would have been.
    There will be no need for bends in the brake linkage to clear the fuel tank as it will be well forward of the linkage.
    I removed 6mm (3mm top - 3mm bottom)from the height of the servo mounts to get the linkage rods level with the throttle and brake arms.
    I also made a small mount which attaches to the carb pinch bolt/nut for a throttle return spring to attach directly to the servo horn.
    It works very smooth and the throttle valve returns to the idle gap within a second of power disconnect.





    No slipper/tall gearing/power = broken parts.

  39. #39
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. troutfisher9's Avatar
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    Great idea for the return spring. I have mine attached to the engine mount bolt like so... Works quite well.

    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound...

  40. #40
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    I am in awe with your ingenuity Snook. I may not reply much but lurk on these projects of yours. Still awaiting my 3 speed, fyi.

    I like that TRS set-up. Better than mine!
    Am I done yet? The wife keeps telling me yes!

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