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  1. #1
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    Which motor and ESC replacment

    I want to replace my motor and esc so that i can get more power and less heat, I really wanted to get the mamba max combo with the 2650 motor but the only reason i was stuck on this is because i dont know much about what else is available.

    can you guys please suggest other options of both motors and esc's i really want to be able to run 6s just because but if thats not possible then its ok

    I know that i will be replacing all sorts of parts that can't cope with the extra power but thats fine i can live with that.

    So what else are my options

    thanks

    kim

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    Knowing what you want to do, and your price range will help.

    You could also try a search, as this has been covered before
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  3. #3
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    I would get the MMM w/2650kv motor, they are $248.00 at Tower and add the MMM plastic mount from Traxxas and now your over $250.00, type in the code for a $50.00 savings and now you have a MMM w/2650kv motor for right around $200.00 which is a great deal seeing how they are selling on ebay for around $150/motor and $150/MMM ESC. Thats's why I bought one for the wife's new Platinum 4x4 because they are so cheap to buy, plus I have the same system in mine now and I love how well it runs and how cool it runs, no more worrying about the temps, those days are over.

  4. #4
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    I have also been running the 25/50 and people didn't believe the insane speed that I was running with that gearing and the beauty of it is the temps don't go up, I have since geared down a hair because of the speed. The MMM w/2650kv motor is the perfect set-up, it is by no means overkill, people just need to run it first before they comment on it. It's a nice set-up for the Slash 4x4 because it doesn't weigh much. I have all the speed I need with my 2S batteries, so I don't need a 3S battery.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by asheck
    Knowing what you want to do, and your price range will help.
    +1 sound advice.
    the insane raw power and torque of some of the larger motors that some people like to use just may not suite your driving style at all. i mean sure, sometimes it's funny when you sneeze and by accident blip the throttle and all four shaft yolks pop, but other times it's just irritating. what you want to do with the truck is one of the best places to start.
    Yup, that's right... i'm a ***** fanboy.

  6. #6
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    I just want to make it crazy fast, the reason for this thread is that the mmm/2650 combo is quite expensive compared to others but i did not know about the $50 discount code, if i can get that then i will be buying the mmm/2650 if someone can give me details about the code it would be much appreciated

    thanks

    kim

    i'm checking the castle creations website again and i cant see where i get the mmm/2650 combo for $200,

    Please help me

    Kim
    Last edited by cooleocool; 06-04-2010 at 05:35 PM. Reason: merge

  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    i'm checking the castle creations website again and i cant see where i get the mmm/2650 combo for $200,

    Please help me

    Kim
    You have to be a Tower member, and use the code provided by Tower.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by asheck
    You have to be a Tower member, and use the code provided by Tower.
    Yeah you must become a super saver member to be able to use the codes.It's only $9.99 to join plus you get free shipping on any order over $150.Thats what I did when I ordered my MMM/2650kv.Best $10 I ever spent.You can find the codes on here somewhere.They won't send them to you right away.Plus they give you 3 free issues of rc car action.If you get this combo you will not be sorry.I still run 18/54 on 2s and 3s and it is way fast I do plan on going to a 20/50 setup soon.Just waiting for my pinion to get here.You may want to get some extra axles though,mine are really twisting bad.And maybe some extra spur gears.I found that out the hard way,did not have an extra and had to wait 3 days for my new ones to get here.Now i have 3 extra.

  9. #9
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    Are you in a hurry or is it a longterm upgrade plan ?

    Tekin RX8 Esc with their new SC4X motor looks like being a nice combo, should be available in a few weeks

    A lot of folks are choosing the Novak 550 motors teamed with the Castle Mamba Max Pro, allthough this combo seems to have some bec related issues

    Cheers
    Slash Platinum
    SCT MMP / 2400kv

  10. #10
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    If you are a Tower Member here are the codes if you spend the following amounts, that's why the MMM is so cheap because it is priced at $249.99 and if you buy the Traxxas ESC hold down, it puts you over $250.00, therefore you get $50.00 off which makes it a $200.00 MMM w/2650kv motor:
    014H1 - $100.00-$124.99 $15.00 OFF
    014H2 - $125.00-$149.99 $20.00 OFF
    014H3 - $150.00-$199.99 $25.00 OFF
    014H4 - $200.00-$224.99 $35.00 OFF
    014H5 - $225.00-$249.99 $40.00 OFF
    014H6 - $250.00-$299.99 $50.00 OFF
    014H7 - $300.00 $60.00 OFF
    Last edited by BBBB; 06-04-2010 at 06:13 PM.

  11. #11
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    just wondering if you all would suggest the mmm/2650 combo over the mmm/2200 combo? im looking to upgrade my powerplant for racing and am wanting to try and get a faster car. I would have already put in a center dif, but my rear half screws came stripeed from the factory and my dremel bits are too big to get in to make a flat-head screw out of it
    Slayer, Slash 4x4 (MMM/2650kv), & a Summit

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher5225
    just wondering if you all would suggest the mmm/2650 combo over the mmm/2200 combo? im looking to upgrade my powerplant for racing and am wanting to try and get a faster car. I would have already put in a center dif, but my rear half screws came stripeed from the factory and my dremel bits are too big to get in to make a flat-head screw out of it

    The 2200 is a pure torque monster according to Castle, The 2650 will be 20% faster if the same gearing battery were used on both

    Al
    MMM/2650, E-maxx Body=FUN !
    3 Slash 4x4
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  13. #13
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    Ok first off, you guys are awesome, so helpfull.

    so how much better is the mmm/2650 kit than the novak kit, because the novak kits look so much cheaper, what novak kit would be equivalent of the 2650 setup

    thanks

    kim

  14. #14
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    I don't think they make the HV ESC anymore, but they came out with the Havoc/Ballistic (550) combo, but I personally don't think it compares to the MMM w/2650kv motor.

  15. #15
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    None of the Novaks would really be equal to the 2650. But the Novak HV motors will work just fine in these, and give you what you want. It's their esc's that are a bit iffy. They do work descently, so you might try a combo, and if you need something else, sell the Novak.


    Another cheaper option is this http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-combo-m1.html I know it's out of stock, but they should have more soon. I run this in my big Slash 4x4 and it does good. But it's not as smooth as the MMM, especially on 2s. But running 45mph, on3s, with Maxx sized tires, the motor has yet to go above 120.
    Last edited by asheck; 06-05-2010 at 08:03 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightningmcnult
    Ok first off, you guys are awesome, so helpfull.

    so how much better is the mmm/2650 kit than the novak kit, because the novak kits look so much cheaper, what novak kit would be equivalent of the 2650 setup

    thanks

    kim
    The Castle MMM or MMP seem to be what most people choose, Castle is great to deal with.

    As for motors I think the debate of which is better could go on for ever and then there would be another new one to debate on.

    I haven't heard alot of BAD feedback on the 2650 motor on web sites, but have read of issues regarding Novak's and compatibilty glitches.

    For that reason I went with the MMM/2650 combo. And $200 @ Tower with discoumt you cant go wrong

    Al
    MMM/2650, E-maxx Body=FUN !
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  17. #17
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    ok i just ordered the mmm/2650 combo from tower, where do you guys suggest getting a 25/50 gear setup as i couldn't find one on towers website


    thanks kim

  18. #18
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    Robinson Racing Harrdend pinions are rated very well. #8725

    http://www.robinsonracing.com/catalo...on.html#.8-mod

    Traxxas 6842 is the 50t spur gear plastic


    Al
    MMM/2650, E-maxx Body=FUN !
    3 Slash 4x4
    Pede 4x4

  19. #19
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    Who said anything about 3s i'm going to be going 6s asap and adding some wings to the monster

    but seriously thats what your trigger finger is for, everything will be fine accept maybe my drivetrain

  20. #20
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    ok i'm confused as to the specs is the 2650 or the 2200 motor better???

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    ok i'm confused as to the specs is the 2650 or the 2200 motor better???
    In these the 2650 would be better. But the 2200 can handle more power, as it's a bigger motor.
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  22. #22
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    2200 is less RPM per volt and more torque per volt. The primary usage is for 1/8 vehicles, like e-maxx and e-revo.

    At 25/50 you will be geared at approx 45-50% faster than 13/54 on stk system and 2s batt
    MMM/2650, E-maxx Body=FUN !
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  23. #23
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    ok i have a much better grasp of all of this now mostly due to the speed calculator from another thread.

    ok so i understand that the 2650 will spin faster at a given voltage but whats to stop me using the 2200 and running a 5s lipo instead of the 4s lipo to make up the difference, that way i have the reserve of a possible 6s if i ever want to smash that 100mph mark,( i realise that alot of other mods are required for this)

    thanks

    kim

  24. #24
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    http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neu-castle_motors.html

    Neu-Castle 1512 1.5Y 1800kv motor is ideal for 1/8 buggies. More controllability than the 2650kv.

    Neu-Castle 1512 1Y 2650kv motor is great for 4s buggies.

    Neu-Castle 1515 1Y 2200kv motor is made for up to 6s Monster trucks.

    Neu-Castle 1518 1Y 1800kv motor is perfect for Monster trucks and offers more controllability and torque than the higher kv 2200.

    Neu-Castle 1520 1Y 1600kv motor is ideal for Monster trucks. This is the bad boy! Think in terms of a chipped turbo diesel...

    Neu-Castle 1717 1580kv motor is great for Monster truck, truggy, and muggy applications. Higher torque and lower RPM than the 1515.
    Last edited by BT_EMT; 06-06-2010 at 07:54 AM.
    3905 E-MAXX

  25. #25
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    we all run 2200, its a little more tame, u have more throttle to play with, so its easier to drive, u get the same speeds and torq if u get it a bit different, but trust me, the 2200 truggies pull on the nitros down the straight
    im goin big, then goin home

  26. #26
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    ok thats cool, but its more tame on say a 4s and then crazy on a 6s right?

  27. #27
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    I'm running the Novak Ballistic 550 5.5T/3700Kv and Mamba Max Pro on 3S/6500/35C. Gearing with the Novak is 16/52, timing is 30. Top end is about even with a new Velineon, but the Novak has a bit more punch on the bottom end. With a fan on the motor the temps are +/- 150 with spikes to 170+ on a large Daytona-like grass oval that has absolutely fried a number of Velineons and VXLs. Velineons don't thermal reliably (at least mine didn't), so they seem to fry pretty easily. Pretty exciting watching your car go up in a cloud of smoke.

    Failure works like this: When you overheat the motor (200+), it spins more freely. Spinning at higher RPM draws more current, which puts more strain on the ESC and motor. Roll the dice to see which will smokes first. Needless to say the best it ran was just before it fried. Smokin' fast!

    The Velineon and the Novak are 2 pole motors. The Castle 2200 and 2650 are 4 pole motors. These run at half the RPM with twice the torque. Less RPM = less heat. My next motor will be the Castle 2200. Should have gotten that instead of the Novak.

  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    Less RPM = less heat
    RPM's do not translate to heat. Inefficiency translates to heat. The Castle motors will run more efficiently at the higher wattage levels some seem to be using in these. I was running my 4.5 on 4s, with no temp issues, probably pushing 60K rpm's.

    Do you have your timing on your motor set to 0, and timing on your esc to 30, or vice versa, or both? 30 seems like a crazy high timing, even though it's what Novak set's the Ballistic at, IIRC their old HV motors were 12.

    When you overheat the motor (200+), it spins more freely. Spinning at higher RPM draws more current, which puts more strain on the ESC and motor. Roll the dice to see which will smokes first. Needless to say the best it ran was just before it fried. Smokin' fast
    !
    Yep, it's called demagnetizing the rotor. Basically turning it into a higher KV motor, the bad way. VXL's seem to have a less tolerant magnet then some other motors.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by asheck
    RPM's do not translate to heat. Inefficiency translates to heat. The Castle motors will run more efficiently at the higher wattage levels some seem to be using in these. I was running my 4.5 on 4s, with no temp issues, probably pushing 60K rpm's.
    Higher voltage = less amperage, therefore less heat. Run on 2 or 3S - gearing up to match speed - and temps will go up.

    More RPM = more amperage draw. Efficiency is great but proportional: 85% efficient at 40,000 RPM is twice the heat (amperage draw) of 85% efficient at 20,000 RPM.

    4 pole motors (Neu and some Castle) are 1/2 RPM and 2X torque of 2 pole motors. Less RPM = less amperage draw = less heat.
    One day racing, one week repairing.

  30. #30
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    Higher voltage = less amperage, therefore less heat. Run on 2 or 3S - gearing up to match speed - and temps will go up.

    More RPM = more amperage draw. Efficiency is great but proportional: 85% efficient at 40,000 RPM is twice the heat (amperage draw) of 85% efficient at 20,000 RPM.
    Higher voltage does equal less amperage, but only equals cooler motor if the motor is running out of it's efficiency range.

    Efficiency is efficiency. If a motor is 85% at 45000 rpm,s, it will be running no hotter then a motor running 85% efficiency at 20000 rpm,s, assuming the same wattage being used.

    Remember the efficiency stems from the wattage the motor is using, not just the amps or volts. By running a higher amp draw, you might lose efficiency, but 2 motors of equal efficiency, will not be effected whether it is using volts or amps to make the watts.
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  31. #31
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    Gets complicated fast, doesn't it? We haven't even considered loading ...
    One day racing, one week repairing.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Way
    Gets complicated fast, doesn't it? We haven't even considered loading ...
    You are telling me!!! This is why I started another one.... Like I said the more I read the more I get...
    fine line between hobby and mental illness

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by asheck
    Efficiency is efficiency. If a motor is 85% at 45000 rpm,s, it will be running no hotter then a motor running 85% efficiency at 20000 rpm,s, assuming the same wattage being used.

    Remember the efficiency stems from the wattage the motor is using, not just the amps or volts. By running a higher amp draw, you might lose efficiency, but 2 motors of equal efficiency, will not be effected whether it is using volts or amps to make the watts.
    Power in watts = voltage in volts x current in amps. Higher motor speed = more current draw (higher amperage). More current draw (more wattage) = more heat.
    One day racing, one week repairing.

  34. #34
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    Higher motor speed = more current draw (higher amperage).
    This is only true if they are geared the same. The motor speed does not make it draw more current , the speed the vehicle is geared for does. To achieve a vehicle speed takes a certain wattage . So since you know that amps x volts = watts, and the wattage is what it takes to achieve a certain speed, the amp draw will be the same for every motor , of equal efficiency, to achieve the same speed, on the same voltage.

    Here's what you seem to be missing.

    Amps x volts= watts= hp= torque x rpm's.
    Above you say this.
    4 pole motors (Neu and some Castle) are 1/2 RPM and 2X torque of 2 pole motors. Less RPM = less amperage draw = less heat.
    But if you use the equation above, you can see that a motor that is turning half the rpm's, but making twice the torque, must still draw the same amps, if using the same voltage.
    Last edited by asheck; 06-08-2010 at 10:15 PM.
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  35. #35
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    In a brushless system, current is pulsed to the motor. The higher the motor's RPM, the more pulses per second. So while the wattage per pulse is the same, an increased number of pulses translates to more heat. We haven't discussed loading, and for the sake of argument all other factors are equalized (gearing for wheel RPM, etc.).
    One day racing, one week repairing.

  36. #36
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    In a brushless system, current is pulsed to the motor. The higher the motor's RPM, the more pulses per second. So while the wattage per pulse is the same, an increased number of pulses translates to more heat.
    But with a 4-pole motor, for every 1 rpm the esc must pulse twice
    But that does not cause the motor to heat up
    The esc pulses, the motor sees a steady amp draw, which rises as the load does.
    Once again, efficiency is efficiency. 2 motors of the same efficiency will be the same temp, regardless of rpm, because efficiency is heat. If 1 motor was hotter, it would have to be more inefficient.
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  37. #37
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    So Patrick, the owner of CC, just posted this at another forum.

    Hmmm, well motor efficiency can't be plotted against RPM. Efficiency is based on power, which is torque X RPM. You can plot efficiency vrs RPM with a constant torque but that by itself doesn't mean anything for gearing.

    Efficiency with no load is zero at any RPM (because no work is being done.) So it only makes sense to measure efficiency on a torque curve.

    Gearing shouldn't be based on an efficiency curve anyway -- it should be based on RPM -- and like I said, RPM by itself doesn't have anything to do with efficiency. It only makes sense when you know both torque and RPM.
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  38. #38
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    Not to get way off topic, but can you run a MMP/2650 combo?

  39. #39
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    I'm running now a MMP w/ 1409/1Y geared at 54/18 on 45c 2s 4500mah and 22c 2s 8000mah and love it! Temps hit around 140. I like the gearing options that are still available with a 36mm motor. I only race with my 4X4 so this setup also keeps unnecessary weight off this little truck.
    JESUS says: "Fix it B4 it Breaks!"

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