Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934

    Water proof Tekin, Rear Steer, Custom Roll Cage: Summit upgrade/build finally ready

    My summit has been out of commission for the better part of two months as I worked on the upgrades and waited on the parts to arrive.

    Rear steer - 4WS
    I owe the basics of the rear steering to Quandiak and Brasher. I originally attempted to make the rear steer from a bi-pivoting harness structure but the hole and screw tolerances allowed for too much play in the wheels. After several attempts I eventually settled on a stock erevo one arm steering servo saver set up and a hobbywing 208 oz torque metal geared servo. The servo is strong, and the turning radius is incredible. The truck is roughly 2 feet long and the turning radius is less than 3 feet, even smaller in loose dirt. I can actually run circles around myself . (video to come soon). If I put my foot on the gas while on a smooth surface I think I can almost turn in the same spot. I used y harnesses to wire all three turning servos together and thus far it is working well - sorry no crab steering yet.
    http://monster.traxxas.com/showthrea...ght=rear+steer
    http://monster.traxxas.com/showthrea...ght=rear+steer

    Rear steer ( 4WS )


    other parts are still in progress
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Victoria B.C Canada
    Posts
    5,061
    I like it that looks ,Nice work.More pics so we can steal ...er..um...learn how to do it and make it look good too
    Mountains cant stop me
    they have tried

  3. #3
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Townsville, Australia
    Posts
    629
    thanks for posting the 2 links providing info on similar situations

    im keen to see some more photos of your works and input from yourself

    theres usually more then one way to solve a challenge....the more different ideas the better

  4. #4
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Newcastle - Australia
    Posts
    249
    Very nice concept. I had thought of 4ws for a short time & could not work out how to acheive it. You have given me some ideas. Thank you.

  5. #5
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Spruce Grove, Alberta
    Posts
    1,552
    Looks really good. Is that the old set up behind the servo saver? When I did mine I only spliced the 2 front servos together and put the rear into the second steering channel. I have a Traxxas link HO RX on order hoping I can find a way to make 4WS, crab steer and center only.

    I had to put the 4WS project on hold until I get it more stable at high speed, so I put the tie-rods back into place until I get my waterproof sensored brushless motor/ESC
    nailed down.

    Very nice to see that I have helped to inspire someone else, I can honestly say the brasher was my main inspiration to get this project started
    Last edited by quadiak; 06-04-2010 at 08:05 AM.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  6. #6
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    The rear steer is wonderful and eventually fairly straight forward. I still need to make it a little stiffer, If you notice that Bashers build has additional metal supports along side the arm. And the Tekin is buttersmooth - thanks quadiak for your input


    another angle of the rear steer :



    earlier attempt at rear steer - actually this set up worked also but I was eyeballing too much and did not use the proper size drill bit for all the screw holes, and with a lot of linkages led to a lot of slop. Also the updated version has the stronger servo:



    Power plant
    Tekin: Nothing else. I have the MMM in my Erevo and just by driving it slow and feeling the "chatter" of the gears and the stuttering of the power I knew it would not due for my rock crawling summit. I originally had a Dewalt set up, and it was great and powerful but also a bit battery hungry. So the ultra efficient Tekin with its sensored motor was the obvious choice. I like mudd. So it had to be water proof. I have seen one guy waterproof his Tekin system with plastic dipp. But it took him two times to get it right. ($300 x2)= $600, and involved opening the esc and speading all three circuit boards (which I was scared to do). I wanted to get it right the first time, I simply dont have an extra $300 dollars to spare so I made a "Jesi box". http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?t=469208

    Jesi has since sold his summit and is no longer in the game. But I still want to throw him his props. Water proof clear top enclosure filled with pure silicone. Non conductive, water proof, and its heat resistant qualities keeps the Tekin running cool. I left the fan on to circulate the silicone. Unlike most I did not buy a brushless system for the speed , mostly the torque, efficiency, extended run time and sensored running system. So mine is geared on 3s 5000mah lipos in parrallel (10000mah), with 22/54 pinion-gearing. This set up leaves me with a lot of torque, smooth riding, and great control, but still well above stock speed. I have yet to GPS it (like I said speed is not the summmits main purpose) but I guessamate it around low 30ish mph. (Brians calculator says 33mph). I left the switch to the on position and simply cut the power by unplugging the batteries. I can still unscrew the top to make adjustments but once I had it dialed in there was really no need to make more adjustments. I am still in the semi-testing phase (in truth do we ever leave that phase?) so I am still monitoring temps and will adjust the gearing to adapt.

    Tekin: first attempt: I eventually wanted a box that was a little larger and did not have natural holes which had to be pulgged up (notice the heavy use of plastic dip. My third version is underway now - a lil larger still. and will have the wires pointing out through the clear top.


    Current setup:
    Notice the on/off plug is encased as well. Like I said my 3rd version is underway I will stop being lazy and re-solder the esc wires straight up through the top to improve the seal.


    OOPS gotta change my signature line soon
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 06-04-2010 at 02:47 PM.
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  7. #7
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    541
    very cool projects noir522.
    cool looking waterproof box, i encorage you to keep us updated on how the box is working out for you as you get more and more runs on it.

    rear steer looks like it works, might need some tweaks down the line though.

    yeah the rear steer could be setup on the stock pistol, to work on the 3 postion switch, just remove your t-lock controler from that channel and plug the rear steer servo directly into that channel. when its fliped up wheel are turned left, when its in the center, wheels are centered, ...

    hey noir just wanted to chime in on my current thoughts of rear steer on the summit, since i have much experiance on the subject. by no means am I trying to bash anyone who wants to or does rear steer on the summit. Just trying to let people know what someone who has gone and done the mod has to say in the end about it.

    rear steer is cool to have, it doesn't work great on the summit though, ive tried it, rebuilt it several times, with new designs, and improvements. Ive found that it just doesnt fit the summit all that well. reasons: steering slop, wheel turn a-arm binding(wheels hit the a-arms when the a-arms are at the bottom of their articulation, thus reducing the steering radius at that level of the suspension articluation.), and the fact that the summit isnt much of a crawler to begin with.(can't climb or crawl up even close the incline of a crawler). sure you can do it, sure it will work, but does this truck really need it? Ive come to the conclusion that no the summit doesn't need rear steering. save the rear steering for your purpose built crawling rig.



    I just removed my rear stear for the time being, and am kind of moving the truck in the e-revo direction. i put p2 rockers on for the time being, since i have 8.62 tall tires, which never needed the diffs locked for anything with Lt rockers. i figured i could put on p2 rockers for handling (smaller tires), and still do ok crawling with p2 rockers, large tires, and diffs locked.
    T8 sensored/Xerun-150a/custom chassis/fit body

  8. #8
    RC Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Spruce Grove, Alberta
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Brasher

    rear steer is cool to have, it doesn't work great on the summit though, ive tried it, rebuilt it several times, with new designs, and improvements. Ive found that it just doesnt fit the summit all that well. reasons: steering slop, wheel turn a-arm binding(wheels hit the a-arms when the a-arms are at the bottom of their articulation, thus reducing the steering radius at that level of the suspension articluation.), and the fact that the summit isnt much of a crawler to begin with.(can't climb or crawl up even close the incline of a crawler). sure you can do it, sure it will work, but does this truck really need it? Ive come to the conclusion that no the summit doesn't need rear steering. save the rear steering for your purpose built crawling rig.
    At one time, I too, was pretty disappointed in the very poor crawling performance of my stock Summit. Now with the help of a much lower center of gravity(lighter lower body), rear steering, sensored water proof brushless setup, and various other mods. Not only is it a very capable crawler, it is a great trail machine that will keep up with most crawlers and accel way past any crawler on a trail. besides all that I am confident I can run at least 2 hrs on a single charge running a pair of 3s 6000Mah LiPo's in parallel(need to get the packs before I can prove this though).

    Brasher, many thanks for the help and inspiration along the way, I am sad to see you have given up on the Summit for what Traxxas created it to be.

    I guess the only thing left to say about the Summits crawling ability is this. Tamiya's Clod Buster doesn't crawl all that well in stock form either, but that is the base platform most competition crawlers have been built on.
    http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?536733

  9. #9
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    I still kinda like the rear steer - like I said the reduced steering radius is great - even when all locked up. (see video of me goofing off).


    Aluminum roll cage
    I didnt really want a roll cage because it raises the center of gravity of my rig - which is bad for rock crawling, But I hated rolling down the hill and smashing my jeep body up. So I made a form fitting aluminum roll cage specifically for the jeep. Keep in mind this is all hand made with ruler, drill and dremel (no auto-cad nor special metal press machine) therefore it is not without its flaws. At this time it is simply painted black - later I will do it in a rubber coating (like the rhino bed liner for pick up trucks). I also included a protective beam for the new LED light bar. When I began the roll cage I thought it may come out rickety and shaky, But once all the parts were pre-assembled and I started the final assembly using pop-rivets it felt nice and tight. No shaking nor loose rattling, nice quality feel, I was tempted to stand on it to claim a 175lb WEIGHT SUPPORT ABILITY - but then I came back to my senses. But It does feel super solid. Same basic design as the original summits roll cage - using the body mount posts as its final support structure and connecting point.

    Shoes
    I wanted something big. My big joes climbed well but at 6.2" they lacked the size that I was looking for, and my moabs just dont climb very well. I considered RCWD's series of wheels but I could not get used to the fact they only offered tires in 40 series narrow. Tall "skinny" wheels makes the summit look too spidery (in my opinion) - I wanted mine big and beefy. Even though I was not looking for the blingy "rolling on 24 inch dubs" effect I have to admit the tall chrome does look kinda good. And the thin but wide spaced chevron pattern gives it a fingery- clingy effect and does well on the rocks. And at 7.5" tall and 4" wide they fit the bill well. The inner foam is "ok" and does tend to flex well on rock surfaces.

    I am still working on the small details, like a better box to access the esc easier, an aluminum rear guard to better protect the rear steer setup, and I still have to waterproof my new servos but at least now I am back to the driving phase. My next series of upgrades will include a front digg,

    roll cage:



    painted and light prep:


    final project:


    Pit Bull Summit (just a little bit of bling)


    turning radius demo and goofing off:
    <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid857.photobucket.com/albums/ab136/noir522/Summit%202/P1190545.flv">

    http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P1190545.flv
    Last edited by noir522; 06-05-2010 at 08:31 AM.
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  10. #10
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    more goofing off (sorry that previous link no worky)


    the best part is the last 20 sec

    http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P1190547.flv
    Last edited by noir522; 06-05-2010 at 10:44 AM.
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  11. #11
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    wheels are cen genesis 7.7. They have very little side wall so virtually no rolling, very good at high speeds.
    The best thing is they are 23mm hubs - the size hobs I already run.
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  12. #12
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    541
    Quote Originally Posted by noir522
    Aluminum roll cage
    I didnt really want a roll cage because it raises the center of gravity of my rig - which is bad for rock crawling, But I hated rolling down the hill and smashing my jeep body up. So I made a form fitting aluminum roll cage specifically for the jeep. Keep in mind this is all hand made with ruler, drill and dremel (no auto-cad nor special metal press machine) therefore it is not without its flaws. At this time it is simply painted black - later I will do it in a rubber coating (like the rhino bed liner for pick up trucks). I also included a protective beam for the new LED light bar. When I began the roll cage I thought it may come out rickety and shaky, But once all the parts were pre-assembled and I started the final assembly using pop-rivets it felt nice and tight. No shaking nor loose rattling, nice quality feel, I was tempted to stand on it to claim a 175lb WEIGHT SUPPORT ABILITY - but then I came back to my senses. But It does feel super solid. Same basic design as the original summits roll cage - using the body mount posts as its final support structure and connecting point
    very cool roll cage, it turned out great. just through more weight down low to offset the weight it added.
    T8 sensored/Xerun-150a/custom chassis/fit body

  13. #13
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    I will probably add some automotive weights to the insides of the wheels
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  14. #14
    RC Racer
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    133
    Can you show where you drilled the hole to attach the bellcrank and what size screw you used to attach it?

    Also, what would it take to be able to turn on and off the rear steer?
    Could you use the down position on the locker switch(in the middle position the lockers are free, so couldn't you use the down position to disengage a servo? I have no idea about electronics but it sounds simple enough!

  15. #15
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    934
    I used the inside of the bumper mount as a pivot point for the bell crank (dead center) and used the stock toe links. Quandiak used a merv bellcrank and I am sure he would have to have used longer toe links. The screw used is a stock long vertical bumper mount screw and goes through only the attached part of the bumper (If you noticed I actually cut off the "hoop" part of the bumper. There is still a little play in the set up so I am thinking of buying a new erevo rear RPM bumper mount they are a feww mm wider which will allow me to install the entire bell crank within the bumper mount without restricting the swinging of the arm, also they are flat (in compared to the steeply angledsummit mount) wich will allow me to place a screw/bar straigh through the hoop of the bumper mount and the attached portion for increased stability.

    To disengage - theoretically yes, if you y-harness both lockers into the A slot of the T-lock module inthe the receiver box and plug the rear steering servo into the B slot (you may have to switch them around) yes you could off/on the rear steering servo but it would only allow to lock both diffs at the same time. You could y-harness and mix the wires to achieve different results with experimentation (ie lockers on +steering. lockers off +steering etc). My main concern is that without constant steering input (ie centering in the neatrul position) if your rig hit a bump and it jarred the servo position ( turned the wheel) if the servo was off it would not automatically center itself like the front wheels would. Hmmmmm. (darn I am long winded)
    Last edited by noir522; 06-08-2010 at 05:11 PM.
    Tekin 4ws Summit
    G2R, ERBE, BB
    Use common sense

  16. #16
    RC Qualifier
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Castle Valley UT and Santa Barbara CA
    Posts
    706
    Where did you get the box You used?
    Brushless Summit!!!!!
    Slash 4x4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •