A Hummer or Bust!

[Telnets]

Sorry for creating a new thread, but I wanted to start something that I could keep updating throughout my project.

Since the slash was released, I have wanted to turn it into a hummer. Well, recently I've made some contacts with some people in the right fields of work (Rapid Prototype machines, rubber mold & Casting, Thermal-forming) and am now in the process of turning my wish, into a project and following it to completion.

Ill keep this post updated with photos and progress for those who wish to follow it.

[Telnets]

My initial problem was the design and concept stage. Being a level designer for a few game companies, I know 3D Studio fairly well (in no way am I a pro as its been 7+ years since ive done anything in it) so I decided the best way is to start off with designing a simple Slash chassis to scale that I can use to virtually fit and adjust the body to fit. Its not 100% perfect down to the Millimeter, but, it is close enough to get a fairly decent idea of what the prototype body will look like and allow me to see any obvious problems right away.



There it is.. Some wheels (33.2cm wheel base, 10.5cm diameter, 5cm wide), a place holder for the chassis and nurf bars, place holders for the bumpers and of course the body posts (set at the height of the shocks being compressed until the truck bottoms out)

This will give me a decent base to work from.

Next was the Hummer body.

I wanted to create a HMMWV (Hummer 1) but, the wheel wells didnt line up very well at all, it wasnt wide enough and looked funny when i scaled it to the Slash wheel base, and the front wheels wernt even close to clearing the wheel wells even with some tweaking, so I abandoned that version and was thinking about the Concept Hummer HX (Google it). Again though, after mocking it up in 3d studio, it just wasnt happening.

I was going to put the hummer on the back burner and do up a Touareg car instead, but PontiacGT201 on the forums gave me an idea I thought just might work, so back to the hummer I went.

He suggested I do up a Rally hummer body, which looks like this


It seems to have everything im looking for in a body, large front wheel wells, able to adjust the scale without it looking too funny.. so.. off to 3D Studio.

I came up with this very quick, and early mock up


As you can see, it needs a little tweaking still, but it shows me that it can fit quite well.. So, im going to take the weekend to work on a polished version of it, exactly how I want to see it fit, and meet with my rapid prototype buddy on Saturday to see if he can see any flaws i need to address

[BlackFox]

great,,,now I have to subcribe to this one too...lol.....make the mold strong...you might end up selling a few of these once you make it......seems simple enough after the design process and clay sculpture . check this out
http://www.youtube.com/user/PANABA453#p/u/3/fpByEx6EmZc

[rustler09]

just an idea here,

could you use the measurements off of this body, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...K3&P=**Missing Data**
and portion it here or there as needed, for more of a h2 you would see on the streetvs the rally deal!! just my thoughts.

[Telnets]

Taking the dimensions wouldn't help unfortunately, i dont have access to a 3D Scanner, and the dimensions on the site tell me basics, like overall width/height, but they dont tell me things like how high the hood is compared to the body posts, or how much travel the wheel has and if it will hit anything while the springs are compressed. Its one reason im putting the H1 on the back burner, because though the body could fit just fine if the car is running straight, soon as you turn the wheel and dip the nose a little the tire rubs on the fender/wheel well. So id need to redesign the whole front, but, then it wouldnt look like a hummer 1 anymore if i did..

[rustler09]

you may need someone with the same type body to tell you what you need to know, like i said it was just an idea.

[jrmbtr]

He suggested I do up a Rally hummer body, which looks like this

If you're able to replicate this, sign me up!

[Krispy]

Subscribed to this as well.

I am impressed with your design thought process. Keep up the good work.

[hsals]

Sorry? What do u mean with that?

This is going to be interesting!

[Telnets]

Got back from a few hour meeting with the Rapid prototype guy today, talks went well. One of the hurdles we are facing is that the epoxy that the 3d print is made from doesn't stand up to heat well, so he found some higher temp epoxy that we think we can use. If that wont work, then it looks like ill have to cast a negative of the prototype in sillicon, then fill the sillicon mold with a resin or poly vinal material in order to create a copy of the prototype. This i know wold work well, and it stands up to 800degree heat before it gets soft, but it also adds about a 700 dollar expense to the project. There are a few alternative options we are looking into, and one of them is coating the prototype with a few layers of car enamel. That stuff is pretty tough and heat resistant but we arnt sure exactly what the outcome will be. He gave me about 1/2 dozen little 3" by 1.5 inch houses i can use to experiment with and come up with our final option. Ill let you know the testing results when we do them next week. Until then, i am going to finish up painting the bathroom, and work on the 3d model more cleaning it up.

Ill post a pic if the final model when its complete and ready for the prototype

[Telnets]

Was up until 3am last night polishing the 3D model up and making it look more like a rally hummer then just a street variant of the H3. I have to fiddle with the bumper still once I adjust everything to the Slash chassis, but otherwise im almost ready for my prototype shell.

My "render" version


and a poly view of the hummer


One of my reference pics

[PontiacGT201]

dude if you make these I totally want one.

[Telnets]

workin on it :P

Im hoping to have my first body on the track for end of May as my goal..

[Cubic]

I'm jealous of your 3D Studio Max skills. I'm tryin to learn Maya. Look forward to seeing more.

[wirgej38]

subscribed!!!!!!

[momo.75]

What are you planning to do about the rear body mounts?

[round]

Suscribed!!!!!!! I want one and will race it on my 4x4 slash.

[Telnets]

Maya is a nice program.. about the same learning curve as max though.. i was lucky to learn from actual animation artists, doing it myself would have been a huge undertaking..

The above was actually made with Sketchup. I started in max, but Sketchup fits on a USB key and can be portable so it allowed me to use it at work when i was bored so i swapped. it did what i needed and was easy to use.

momo - You will have to get longer aftermarket body posts to fit the body is all..

[Krispy]

I don't know how crazy I am about the vents on the hood. Unless you take a bunch of detail out of them I can see it causing a problem with the manufacturing process.

Are you just eyebaling the design around the pictures or are you using measurments (taken from pictures) to keep the scale correct?

I think you are doing a wonderful job, it looks amazing!

[Telnets]

Yeah im still fiddling with the vents, the pics I found have the curved vents like that, but, im not sure how much i like them. I might change them up still to a more classic hood vent look.

Im not taking many measurements from the pictures themselves for a couple of reasons. The main reason though is that the Slash chassis, is much different then any sort of scale car. If you blew up a slash to real size it would be the equivalent of a 11 foot wide hummer with only enough room for 1 door, its really kind of awkward. Plus, I cant have too many sharp corners or dips in the body, so I have to round a few things out (like the connection from the back fender to the body) on my model so the lexan doesnt wrinkle when forming.. but im getting it as close as i can within the restrictions I have.


Right now im just focusing on building a Slash chassis to scale (down to the millimeter) so that will take up most of this week, and hopefully by the weekend ill address the hood vents more and have everything to exact scale. Then its off to the 3d printer!

[ducati777]

This is cool stuff. Does the 3d printer make a solid object? Or is it hollow, then you lay lexan over it?

[Krispy]

This is cool stuff. Does the 3d printer make a solid object? Or is it hollow, then you lay lexan over it?

Either way can be done, however if it is going to be used as a tool I would think it would be solid or very thick.


What are the bed dimensions of your (their) rapid prototype machine? Also keep in mind that depending on what file type you give to the printer you may end up with aliased curves, which will take much sanding to smooth.

[Telnets]

The printer is a smaller one, so he will need to print it in sections, but it wont be a problem becaus eyou can "stitch" them together after they are out.

It definatly wont be solid. The costs are pretty high to run the printer and a solid shell at that size would be pretty wastefull. The binder is quite strong, I have a little house he gave me and it takes quite an effort to break it with your hand so we are going to make it about 5mm thick. At this thickness I should be able to stand on it without it breaking, however, im also going to fill it with an very ridged expanding foam. Once the foam dries, it becomes almost as solid as plaster, so there wont be any chance of anything happening to it.

The problem i am sorting out now, is that the thermalformer temps are upwards of 400f. Well the binder/epoxy for the printer is good up until only 150f or so, then it gets soft and would break apart. There is another epoxy we are going to import thats ok to about 350f, but thats still 50f off. However, it might be alright, because the thermalformer is only at 450 to heat the plastic, and within a few seconds, the plastic starts cooling, so, it might not be a problem.

If it is though, then we will be taking the prototype, and creating a silicon rubber mold from it, then pouring poly-resin into that mould to create a copy. The poly-resin is good up to 800f, so that will definatly be ok at the thermal former. The other benifit is that i can create 3 or 4 of the same cast, which means i can get more bodies pressed per time, lowering my costs per body by 1/3. However, the cost to make the resin castings is almost as much as the cost of the 3d print, so, were still shopping around and talking to thermal forming companies on solutions.

[BlackFox]

I figured this would already be designed and molded by now...lol

[Telnets]

Haha thanks Blackfox ;P

Its taking quite a while to make sure I only have to pay for the materials on ONE prototype :P

End of may I should have a few bodies rolling off the table

Heres tonight's work



Because I need to make sure the prototype is going to fit exact, I needed a more exact scale of my chassis. So I tossed sketchup into millimeter units, and grabbed a ruler and my slash.

The above is the front section and chassis done. I should be able to finish the back section, bumper and wheels tomorrow (if the GF doesnt make me install the tap in the bathroom instead)

Accurate to the MM (where it counts anyhow like body post size/position, ect) the other stuff is just me getting too detailed but having a little fun learning the program as well.

[PontiacGT201]

dude you do some amazing work. Id love to be able to do that stuff. I mean its just cool. If you dont mind, Id like to print the 2 chassie ones. But I want to ask you before I do. I just think theres cool looking. Cant wait till you get the bodys out.

[BlackFox]

^^^ very nice work...and I can understand getting into it and making too much detail. Can wait to see it come to life though (minus the hood "vents"..fenders are ok though...just reminds me alot of the Manta with both)

[Hvrc]

Subcribed!

[Telnets]

Thanks for the compliments! Its encouraging and makes me want to work on it more.

Fox: Are you saying i should ditch the hood vents all together, or just change what I have to something more hummer-classic


Pontiac,
PM me your email, ill send you larger ones if you like, and it will have the rear end on it for you if you want.

[Team Riptide 17]

I am so impressed with this thread! I think I do good to just install what is commercially available. You guys who take this to a much higher level deserve a ton of respect. I too am eager to see finished product! Subscribed!!

TR17

[round]

Thanks for the compliments! Its encouraging and makes me want to work on it more.

Fox: Are you saying i should ditch the hood vents all together, or just change what I have to something more hummer-classic


Pontiac,
PM me your email, ill send you larger ones if you like, and it will have the rear end on it for you if you want.

Personally I would ditch the hood vent(easier to apply sponsor decals etc.) and keep the ones off to the sides. Looks awesome!!!!

[BlackFox]

yeah...ditch the hood vents period IMO....Its too much for me....it makes it harder for any masking also...and certain painting (carbon fiber hoods) the ones on the fenders are ok...but like a smoother look myself...but its your design.....some people (including yourself) may like them. Some wont...you know how all that goes....Im really loving the general design itself...I used to run a hummer body WAY back in the day on my old Tmaxx. When you get these ready...Ill buy one from you....Ill go ahead and say you will make some good money on this when you get it ready.

[Telnets]

Well, personally, ive never seen a hummer without a hood vent, but good points on the painting/masking..

I think what ill do is play around with 1 or 2 designs and then post them to get some feedback, however, Ill keep a clean version incase they dont look right, and maybe ill try something like on the Losi Strike body, and just have a small "scoop" instead.. it would be subtle, still easy to mask, but add SOME detail to the hood.. (as well as strength to it)

Ill keep a copy of the clean version as well and revert back to that if everything i try fails

[Nitro792]

This is getting interesting... I want one.

[ducati777]

I vote no vents on hood.

Fun looking stuff. I was trying to draw a chasis is MS word the other night. Its harder than it looks for all you internet engineers out there.

[Tamiya]

The printer is a smaller one, so he will need to print it in sections, but it wont be a problem becaus eyou can "stitch" them together after they are out.

It definatly wont be solid. The costs are pretty high to run the printer and a solid shell at that size would be pretty wastefull. The binder is quite strong, I have a little house he gave me and it takes quite an effort to break it with your hand so we are going to make it about 5mm thick. At this thickness I should be able to stand on it without it breaking, however, im also going to fill it with an very ridged expanding foam. Once the foam dries, it becomes almost as solid as plaster, so there wont be any chance of anything happening to it.

The problem i am sorting out now, is that the thermalformer temps are upwards of 400f. Well the binder/epoxy for the printer is good up until only 150f or so, then it gets soft and would break apart. There is another epoxy we are going to import thats ok to about 350f, but thats still 50f off. However, it might be alright, because the thermalformer is only at 450 to heat the plastic, and within a few seconds, the plastic starts cooling, so, it might not be a problem.

If it is though, then we will be taking the prototype, and creating a silicon rubber mold from it, then pouring poly-resin into that mould to create a copy. The poly-resin is good up to 800f, so that will definatly be ok at the thermal former. The other benifit is that i can create 3 or 4 of the same cast, which means i can get more bodies pressed per time, lowering my costs per body by 1/3. However, the cost to make the resin castings is almost as much as the cost of the 3d print, so, were still shopping around and talking to thermal forming companies on solutions.

why don't you RP a negative/inverse of the shape ie make a jellymold

then pour plaster of paris into the jellymold and that plaster becomes your buck

RP resin should stand the heat of POP curing

[Telnets]

the prototyper wont change powders for me to one of the powders & epoxies that are flexable when it cures (its about a 900 dollar expense for materials and labor), so im stuck with a hard plaster-type of a prototype.

I thought about having him print the inverse mold and cast the resin inside that, but doing so means to release the cast, I would have to destroy the prototype after the cast cures. I would normaly not have an issuw with that, but it would be my first time pouring a cast, and I dont know how comfortable i am destroyting my only mold if i screw up the cast prosess.

A flexable rubber/sillicon mold would be ideal, as it bends enough to release the cast, but adds 700 dollars in materials to the cost of creating it.

Since im trying to do this one on somewhat of a budget (i gave myself 1000 dollars to work with) i think the option i may go with, is have the prototype done up, fill it with rigid foam, and just cast as many bodies as i can get out of it for the first run (estimation of between 10 - 50)

Of thoes casts, I will keep the first 2 or 3 shells "in storage" and if say, i get more orders and need a new cast, then i would be able to cast a buck from thoes shells, which should be almost exact copies of the prototype.

For this run, again because i dont know if im going to sell 1000 of these, or 4 of them, i think that would be my most cost effective solution.. unless I find someone in town whos cast rubber molds before and could just help me out making sure i do it right, then i would invest the money into that knowing it would be properly done

[Telnets]

I just got off the phone with a company in town that does custom manufacturing, i took a shot in the dark and asked about them building molds and they said "oh yeah we do that all the time for metal casts" and then i asked if they worked with 3d printing at all, again which they said "sure, we get lots of that"

After another few questions he mentioned that it was per hour basis, and doesnt think it would take too long to pour my mold out of sillicon/rubber, and it was promising when he said "probably an hour or two work" so i may have found my solution to creating a re-usable cast.

This is great, because when i go to the thermal former, i can "slam" 3 or 4 bodies at once, rather then 1 at a time, which custs my per body cost quite a bit

[PontiacGT201]

sweet man. sounds good.

[Telnets]

I dont know if anyone is interested in the daily updates, but thought i would post for thoes who are following the thread :P