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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    So in real 1:1 crawling we can look forward to a move to independent suspension??

    Sweeeeeet!
    No i dont think that at all. If a guy as a jeep and puts a revese spring lift on it, the articulation of the Suspension is by far improve. plus you have big horse power in the 1:1 trucks (most of the time) so a soild axle is Necessary. the soild axle will always rule as in king in the 1: 1 rock crawling world.

    oh and hey FrankyRizzo what where you trying to say with that picture? was it a insult? or was it a effort to belittle me? if so than you have hurt my feelings. you should never put things like this on a form page cuz the message that you are trying to Convey is uncear and people can take it the wrong way.Myself i would never want to send mix messages and i would never want to make somone think im making fun of them.
    om
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  2. #42
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. asheck's Avatar
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    Here's the weakness of IS IMO. With a solid front axle when you raise one tire you increase the downforce on the other tire,it works like a lever. Which allows it to get better traction,in crawling, traction is almost everything. With the independent you only increase the pressure on the tire being raised,and actually lessen the traction of the other.So under normal circumstances the solid will be far superior.Because of the fact that TRX uses such long travel suspension,this effect is minimalized,as the down side should have alot of droop,but it retains the advantages of being independent.So this has a shot of being something special,but I wouldn't write off any vehicle that is all setup correctly.
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  3. #43
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    I have no experience rock crawling in a full size vehicle or using an RC vehicle. But using the power of the internet to research the subject I've found that most people are in agreement that solid axles are better for rock crawling than independant suspension. It's likely that the Summit will not be as capable as a purpose-built rock crawler with solid axles.

    Having said that, it's possible that the Summit may perform surprisingly well as a rock crawler. The real-world experience that says solid axles perform better at rock crawling is based upon vehicles that, for the most part, do not resemble the Revo/Summit in form or function.

    But, as some have already said, we'll not know for sure until people start running the Summit head to head with a solid-axle crawler.

  4. #44
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    I will be purchasing a Summit, so I will make a video comparing it to my AX-10 on a small rock course in my front yard. Weather permitting, I'll attempt to get it done this weekend.

    I honestly don't know what to expect because I haven't seen a Summit perform in real-life, but I'm excited to find out how well it does.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulangflow
    I will be purchasing a Summit, so I will make a video comparing it to my AX-10 on a small rock course in my front yard. Weather permitting, I'll attempt to get it done this weekend.

    I honestly don't know what to expect because I haven't seen a Summit perform in real-life, but I'm excited to find out how well it does.
    That will be enjoyable to watch and what asheck said in the post above makes alot of sense. and so does what Code also said.
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  6. #46
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    what is the size difference between the ax10 and the summit? Because that could make a big diierence on some obsticles.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac8175
    what is the size difference between the ax10 and the summit? Because that could make a big diierence on some obsticles.
    x2 an axial ax 10 is considered a 2.2 class crawler with as maximum wb and track width and tire size, as the summit sits it would be super class rig with a short WB. so to be fair it should be put along side a clod based or similar super class truck.

  8. #48
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    I figured it would be more fair to pit a small dedicated crawler against a larger multi-purpose vehicle.

    If the Summit can't outperform a 2.2, there's no way it would outperform a Super. Besides, I already sold my Super. :-)
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidrx794
    oh and hey FrankyRizzo what where you trying to say with that picture? was it a insult?
    No offense intended just a funny pic.
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  10. #50
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    Yeah, any comparison would be welcome! Just make sure to get good close up shots, and tell us what the setups are!
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  11. #51
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rjm2519's Avatar
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    Pretty interesting that the guy writing the comparison article mentioned the use of portals on solid axles since the H1 hummer has portals that reduce gearing 1.9:1, and they are generally considered the weak link in the H1 driveline.

    I would like to see an axial crawler go against a summit in an obstacle course like the video on youtube from the rcmag don't remember the name, but it goes through water and dirt and rocks. I don't think many crawlers could compete their.
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  12. #52
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    As some others have said, the Summit would fall more under the Super class, not the 2.2 (axial ax10) class.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by egnix
    As some others have said, the Summit would fall more under the Super class, not the 2.2 (axial ax10) class.
    While it's true that the size would put it closer to the Super class, its expected crawling ability would put it closer to the 2.2 class (IMO, of course).
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  14. #54
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    My point was really that the summit is waterproof, and I haven't seen any crawlers that are. I am not saying they aren't out there I just haven't seen or heard of any.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjm2519
    My point was really that the summit is waterproof, and I haven't seen any crawlers that are. I am not saying they aren't out there I just haven't seen or heard of any.
    Pretty much all the crawlers in our local club are waterproof for the snow-comps. Certainly none of them are in stock form like the Summit, but it doesn't take much to make them river-worthy.

    Speaking of, I'm leaving right now to go pick up a new Summit!

    Sweeeeet.
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  16. #56
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    Sorry to burst everyones bubble.Solid axle is not the best for 1:1 rock crawlers.The only reason they use it is because cvd rear and front will snap with the torq.So they have no choice to use solid axles.This was out of mouths of 1:1 crawler builders not a toy company.The problem is there are some guys that want there rc's as the real thing.Some want there rc's to run the best they can.So the story is if the builders find a strong enough metal to make CVD then everyone will want that on there RC crawlers.


    Thank you

  17. #57
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    YIKES!!! It doesn't matter if solid axel or IS is better if the truck breaks before you can get it on the rocks. Reports are already coming in on broken diffs.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosco72
    Sorry to burst everyones bubble.Solid axle is not the best for 1:1 rock crawlers.The only reason they use it is because cvd rear and front will snap with the torq.So they have no choice to use solid axles.This was out of mouths of 1:1 crawler builders not a toy company.The problem is there are some guys that want there rc's as the real thing.Some want there rc's to run the best they can.So the story is if the builders find a strong enough metal to make CVD then everyone will want that on there RC crawlers.


    Thank you
    Interesting because I know several 1:1 crawler builders that use solid axles because they're better for crawling. These same guys use solid axles on their RC's because it's better for crawling.

    In the R/C crawling world, hundreds of guys put up thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of work, and all the comp crawlers end up as solid axle. I'm betting that if IS was better, that you'd see it used by the guys that do it all the time and really really care about winning competitions.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjm2519
    My point was really that the summit is waterproof, and I haven't seen any crawlers that are. I am not saying they aren't out there I just haven't seen or heard of any.
    here's a few pics of some water on the course from a little event I helped run the last 3 years


    this one just cause its cool



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulangflow
    While it's true that the size would put it closer to the Super class, its expected crawling ability would put it closer to the 2.2 class (IMO, of course).
    Super class has a minimum 16 inch WB. The Summit is 15 so could not compete in a super class comp.
    Last edited by FrankyRizzo; 02-06-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    Super class has a minimum 16 inch WB. The Summit is 15 so could not compete in a super class comp.
    and 2.2 has a 12.5" max so its out there too.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobin3d
    and 2.2 has a 12.5" max so its out there too.
    So much for research.
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  23. #63
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    Darn Summit, it's ain't good fur nuttin
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    Super class has a minimum 16 inch WB. The Summit is 15 so could not compete in a super class comp.
    Hence the "closer" part of my statement. BTW, what do you think about the new max WB in Super class? Do you think it will help revive it? I ran Super class a few years ago, but it just died out here in Utah when everyone went 2.2.

    In other news, I picked up a Summit last night. It certainly crawls better than a stock E-Revo (obviously), but I would really like to throw a different ESC in there with a strong drag brake, as well as a smaller pinion. I'll have to see what I have laying around.
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  25. #65
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    Here is my take. A friend just bought one last night and I got to loo at it up close and personal.

    Neat rig. Its huge and Beefy. I think the diff locking order is wrong. Why would the order be front diff and then rear? Love the body just needs to be mounted a little lower though. I think it would be a fun for a 2.2 scaler. I think that it will be a really fun basher!
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  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    Here is my take. A friend just bought one last night and I got to loo at it up close and personal.

    Neat rig. Its huge and Beefy. I think the diff locking order is wrong. Why would the order be front diff and then rear? Love the body just needs to be mounted a little lower though. I think it would be a fun for a 2.2 scaler. I think that it will be a really fun basher!
    I totally agree about the diff-locking order. It just doesn't make any sense to me. It should be an easy fix though since it's just servo based.

    I took my Summit out just now, and it really is a fun basher. It crawls better than I expected it to. It made a couple of lines my AX-10 couldn't do just because of its huge size. There were several lines it couldn't do that my Axial has no problems with. The biggest problem with the Summit is how top heavy it is, especially with that heavy exo-cage. My AX-10 can stand almost straight up without flopping over backwards.

    I really did love being able to drive the Summit between crawling spots! A couple flips of the switch and I was able to hill-climb. A couple more flips and I was climbing rocks. Very very cool. I'll have to take some video and pics and do a more thorough review.
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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobin3d
    here's a few pics of some water on the course from a little event I helped run the last 3 years


    this one just cause its cool



    man those are little toy trucks somthing like what a 5th grader would play with. where did you get them at walmart?

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    Last edited by davidrx794; 02-07-2009 at 04:52 PM.
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  28. #68
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    german engineering

    the answer to that is onimog portal axles, high diff clearance,solid strenth, and gear reduction done at the portal puts less stress on drivline, too bad they dont make them 12 inches wide

  29. #69
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    sorry replyed to last post on first page

    Edited for content
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    Last edited by Nitro Chicken; 02-10-2009 at 12:53 PM.

  30. #70
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    these diffs are extremely strong...just dont be dumb and lock or unlock while moving....im pushin em with the mmm/neu
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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy666
    the answer to that is Unimog portal axles, high diff clearance,solid strength, and gear reduction done at the portal puts less stress on driveline, too bad they don´t make them 12 inches wide
    Here they are Portal II Axle
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  32. #72
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobin3d
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    Super class has a minimum 16 inch WB. The Summit is 15 so could not compete in a super class comp.

    and 2.2 has a 12.5" max so its out there too..

    Not sure where you guys are getting your info, the Summit would be in the Super Class, here are the requirements out of the 2008 Crawling Rule Book (2009 isn't out yet):

    2.2 - Class 1 - Super Crawler Class:
    • 2.2.1 - No limits on wheelbase, vehicle track width or height.
    • 2.2.2 - No limits on tire type or size.
    • 2.2.3 - No limits to steering configuration.
    • 2.2.4 - Super class bodiless over all dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 12"overall
    length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height
    • 2.2.5 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will
    be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.

    If a truck does not fit in the 1.9 class (8.5" max wb) it goes into the 2.2 class, if a truck does not fit in the 2.2 class (12.5" wb) it goes into the super class.

    Here is the Rule Book:

    http://www.usrcca.com/rules2008.pdf
    Last edited by Greatscott; 02-07-2009 at 08:17 PM.
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  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott
    Not sure where you guys are getting your info, the Summit would be in the Super Class, here are the requirements out of the 2008 Crawling Rule Book (2009 isn't out yet):

    2.2 - Class 1 - Super Crawler Class:
    • 2.2.1 - No limits on wheelbase, vehicle track width or height.
    • 2.2.2 - No limits on tire type or size.
    • 2.2.3 - No limits to steering configuration.
    • 2.2.4 - Super class bodiless over all dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 12"overall
    length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height
    • 2.2.5 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will
    be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.

    If a truck does not fit in the 1.9 class (8.5" max wb) it goes into the 2.2 class, if a truck does not fit in the 2.2 class (12.5" wb) it goes into the super class.

    Here is the Rule Book:

    http://www.usrcca.com/rules2008.pdf
    I'm not on the rules committee, but I think That FR may be. I'm sure he'll let us know

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobin3d
    I'm not on the rules committee, but I think That FR may be. I'm sure he'll let us know
    Yup Yup.

    Here is the 2009 regs.

    Class 1 - Super Crawler Class:
    • 2.2.1 - Vehicle wheelbase is limited to a minimum of 16 inches and a maximum of 18 inches. This is
    determined by measuring from centerline of front axle stub to centerline of rear axle stub, with all the
    wheels pointing straight ahead, with the vehicles suspension holding it's own weight.
    • 2.2.2 - No limits on tire type or size.
    • 2.2.3 - No limits to steering configuration.
    • 2.2.4 - Super class bodiless over all dimension of the complete chassis must be at least 12"overall
    length, 3" overall width, and 3.75" overall height
    • 2.2.5 - If at any point during a run your vehicle falls out of these vehicle specs for any reason you will
    be required to take a touch penalty and correct the problem.
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  35. #75
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Why the change in min wb?
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  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott
    Why the change in min wb?
    To keep people from running the same rig in 2.2 and in Super.
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  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankyRizzo
    To keep people from running the same rig in 2.2 and in Super.
    yup to help define the class a little better, like Franky said, although I kinda was secretly hoping it would have been 14" minimum, I've always been a fan of the 14'er on txt axles. but I digress.....

  38. #78
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    Sigh... another new rule that specifically puts a new product in "no mans land".

    So, who will be the first to sell an aftermarket Summit chassis with a 1.16" longer wheelbase? :-)

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfox
    Sigh... another new rule that specifically puts a new product in "no mans land".

    So, who will be the first to sell an aftermarket Summit chassis with a 1.16" longer wheelbase? :-)
    My guise would be FLM
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    not my Rig, its a guy that has a shop that customizes JK Jeeps. But this is a street driven 4-Door SOLID AXLE Jeep that Flex's very well.. find me an independent set-up that can flex like this.

    Traxxas please sell kits!

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