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  1. #1
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    Looking for the best brushless/esc/motor combo.

    Hello guys, i'm looking to get another brushless setup for my stampede, i've had a vxl system, and currently have a sidewinder with a 5700, i'm looking for something durable smooth and that has great performance. i like the vxl3s esc, but the vxl 3500k motor just doesn't have the power i want on 2 cell lipo, the sidewinder esc i have works great i'm just not impressed with it's specs or capabilities, the mamba max looks ok but only can take 100amps unlike the vxl3s which is 200amps, which to me would make it run harder with less effort and heat. i got my castle 5700 used and the motor can is broken around where it screws together, something my vxl motor never did, and i ran it allot, so i really don't think their motors aren't very durable. the vxl setup was slower than my 10.5ss novak setup but the novak setup can only be run with 2 cell lipo, and i might want to run 3 someday. do you think the vxl setup would be good enough for me and just gear it for what i want, basically do you guys think it's more flexible than others i have mentioned, or do you think i should stay with my current setup. i just need as many opinions as i can get, i'm leaning towards the vxl setup, the only reason i went away from it is the esc's wires fell apart the case cracked and the lvc crapped out, are the newer models of the vxl esc any better? thanks for your help guys.
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  2. #2
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    I just sold my Sidewinder 5700 today and will likely replace it with a VXL like my other trucks run. I have a new and an older vs of the ESC and I just like the raw takeoff I get and the ease of use. I have had one replaced under warranty though when the wires came out, but since no issues at all. Have you looked at the xcelorins or others besides the MM?
    Screamin stable of Lipo'd brushless power!

  3. #3
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    no i haven't i had a novak gtb but isn't flexible enough, i don't know enough about the texin ones or the orions and they are a bit pricey. any links would be appreciated
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  4. #4
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    do you like the vxl motor compared to the castle 5700? what are your opinions on the two.
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  5. #5
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    any one else?
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  6. #6
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    Speed controllers first - the VXL has been updated and no longer loses its wires, but still has occasional problems with early LVC. The Mamba Max has a huge range of tuning options, and most people aren't running setups that actually strain even the 100-amp limit of the Mamba. In particular, I like the ability to limit brake and reverse power, and to update the controller firmware. However, the Mamba is more expensive (and occasionally needs the power switch replaced), so if you don't really need the tuning options there's nothing wrong with the VXL.

    Now for motors. So what if the motor can on your 5700 is cracked? You can't really make reliability decisions about a motor you bought used; what if the crack happened when the previous owner dropped the motor off a roof, or hit a wall at 80 MPH? I can't imagine any way to crack that area of the motor can while it's still in the car, so something fairly violent had to happen to it.

    That aside, either the Velineon or 5700 would be an excellent choice. Overall, I expect the performance and top speeds to be very similar. However, if you're not geared for speed runs, and just want to bash around, I'd expect the 3500 to run a bit cooler.

  7. #7
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    yeah the tuning options really are not needed, i just need a lvc and forward and reverse i liked my vxl but it really fell apart on me where i have never had a gtb fail or fall apart, my 5700 works well after i changed the bearings shimmed the motor shaft, and epoxied the motor together, i'm assuming that it took a good hit to break the can, but the motor preforms great. maybe i'll just get a vxl system for 160$ i really can't go wrong, plus i'll be keeping my sidewinder and the 5700, so i'll have options, are their any better motors out there that are decent, if the 5700 and the 3500 are comparable then whats over them?
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  8. #8
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    These are better then both http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/036-V2.htm The 36-50-4800 would be a great 2s motor.The vxl esc will not run it as it is a 4pole motor,which means lots of torque. But what about a new Novak system.The new havoc esc is 3s capable. http://www.shopatron.com/product/par...0.8180.0.0.0.0 since you already have the 10.5ss motor it should work with this esc.
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  9. #9
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    The VXL ESC can take sensored motors, can't it? If it does then you could use one of the novak motors you said you liked and still have the three cell capability of the VXL.

  10. #10
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    http://www.ewebcart.com/~3806/cgi-bi...t&la=a&ac=view
    so would this motor work, and why wouldn't it work with the vxl3s it has 3 wires? novaks standard size brushless motors only go up to 7 cells according to their chart.
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  11. #11
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    Why not get the Mamba Max if you want to run 3s? The newer CM36s motors have a 100k rpm limit. Plus, you get the tuning options that enable you to dial the power where you want it.
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  12. #12
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    i want the power to be always available so tuning options aren't really that important, but the mambamax is only 100 amps continuous, and the vxl3s is 200 amps. and castles motors aren't really rebuildable without allot of effort.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apexracing
    i want the power to be always available so tuning options aren't really that important, but the mambamax is only 100 amps continuous, and the vxl3s is 200 amps. and castles motors aren't really rebuildable without allot of effort.
    First off, your not going to run 200A continuously with any brushless system, unless you have a 1.21 Gigawatt motor or something. Or 100A for that matter. You won't notice that much of a difference between the MM and the VXL-3 esc running on 2s or 3s packs anyway. Second, the power is always available with the MM just like the VXL-3, it just allows you to raise or lower the motor timing, the throttle/brake curves, etc, so you can set up your system for different type tracks and terrains. Plus, it has a custom cutoff voltage for lipos that you can set to whatever you want. I set mine to 6.5V for 2s for a safety margin. The VXL-3 kicks in at 6.0V (If I'm not mistaken) which is too close for comfort for me. Lastly, you can run the VXL motor on the MM esc. Many here have done it, and they say it's one of the best BL motor/esc combos they've tried.
    Velineon SpeedPede
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  14. #14
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    hmm, can i run that medusa i linked to with a mamba max esc?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apexracing
    hmm, can i run that medusa i linked to with a mamba max esc?
    I'm not sure on that one. I think asheck would know the answer to that one. I'm thinking that you can, but maybe shoot him a PM and ask him.
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  16. #16
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    so the mamba max is allot better than the sidewinder, it does look nice, maybe i'll go for it, i sent him a pm i'm curious about their motors they look sweet. tax's should be here in 10 days or so. can't wait.
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  17. #17
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    Yeah, the Mamba Max esc is awesome. I hear that the Sidewinder only has 2/3 the power the MambaMax has. So, you should see an increase in performance with good batteries. I love the punch control setting on my MM esc. I can raise the front end of my 'Pede while it's going 20+mph with the punch control disabled with a 2s lipo or 7-cells. That's with an extended chassis. It will do it with a good 6 cell too. With the punch control set at 0% it will flip over on it's back and play dead. I've clocked my 'Pede going 47.8 mph with 19/90 gearing on a Maxamps 7-cell. It would have went a hair faster, but I ran out of room. I'm going to see what it does on a 3s with Anaconda's geared 19/86 this Spring!

    Here's a short video of my Mamba Max 5700kV 'Pede running on an SMC 2s 5000mAh lipo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMqXpZOktv4
    Last edited by MambaMaxPede; 01-26-2009 at 02:44 PM.
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  18. #18
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    I'm going to echo Asheck - a new product that might be worth considering is Novak's Havoc 3s ESC. http://www.shopatron.com/product/par...0.8180.0.0.0.0

    Run your 10.5 motor on it with 3s, it should be pretty beastly and efficient. If you're sticking with 2s, you'd have to get an 8.5 motor to be faster. That may or may not be worth it to you, as it won't be any faster than the other setups you've used on 2s. Well, according to your experience it might be faster than the Velineon 3500 motor. But others might argue this point.
    XL-1 Pede + Novak SS brushless...old school baby!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apexracing
    i want the power to be always available so tuning options aren't really that important, but the mambamax is only 100 amps continuous, and the vxl3s is 200 amps. and castles motors aren't really rebuildable without allot of effort.
    Personally, I don't believe in the 200A capacity of the VXL. The Monster max is only rated at 120A. The VXL can't even handle a Castle 7700 motor. You can't also compare a Mamba Max with a VXL. The LVC adjustability of Castle esc's is already a big plus.
    Last edited by clowkoy; 01-26-2009 at 06:41 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by clowkoy
    Personally, I don't believe in the 200A capacity of the VXL. The Monster max is only rated at 120A. The VXL can't even handle a Castle 7700 motor. You can't also compare a Mamba Max with a VXL. The LVC adjustability of Castle esc's is already a big plus.
    You might be on to something. I think if you compare the power-handling specs of the Traxxas and Castle equipment, as well as their estimated speed charts, you'll see a bit of a mismatch. I don't for a moment think Traxxas is being dishonest, but I think Castle is awfully conservative with their ratings. I wouldn't expect to see a VXL-3s perform any better than a Mamba Max, and I quite like the tuning options on the Mamba. However, a VXL is much cheaper than a Mamba, and almost certainly more powerful than a Sidewinder.

  21. #21
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    True. I've been through 2 VXL failures so I can't recommend them. I'm happy with the Velineon motor though.
    Unless you buy your vxl on ebay, it's not much cheaper than a Mamba Max because you can get a new MM for $105 shipped.

  22. #22
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    Without getting to deep into all my testing the MM is less powerful then the VXL,on the same gearing.But the mamba does take to gearing up higher,so the speeds can be equal.But ratings don't mean squat.In my E-revo,all settings to max power,on the same gearing,on the same batterys, my quark 80b esc is 4 mph faster then the Mamba max,2.5 mph faster then the MMM.It's kinda weird,that esc has a highpower lipo setting that seems to just push the current out.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by asheck
    Without getting to deep into all my testing the MM is less powerful then the VXL,on the same gearing.But the mamba does take to gearing up higher,so the speeds can be equal.But ratings don't mean squat.In my E-revo,all settings to max power,on the same gearing,on the same batterys, my quark 80b esc is 4 mph faster then the Mamba max,2.5 mph faster then the MMM.It's kinda weird,that esc has a highpower lipo setting that seems to just push the current out.
    Interesting.

    Someone above said it right: "power handling." It's not all about current. I think it would be hard to prove that the Mamba Max is less capable overall than the VXL. There are many factors involved. I wonder if the VXL would put up with powering a 1/8 scale vehicle on 4s? People do that with the Mamba Max regularly, running an external BEC.
    XL-1 Pede + Novak SS brushless...old school baby!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Pede
    I'm going to echo Asheck - a new product that might be worth considering is Novak's Havoc 3s ESC. http://www.shopatron.com/product/par...0.8180.0.0.0.0

    Run your 10.5 motor on it with 3s, it should be pretty beastly and efficient. If you're sticking with 2s, you'd have to get an 8.5 motor to be faster. That may or may not be worth it to you, as it won't be any faster than the other setups you've used on 2s. Well, according to your experience it might be faster than the Velineon 3500 motor. But others might argue this point.

    well i've geared the velenion pretty high and argue it or not the novak 10.5ss which is 4500 kv is faster than the velenion on 2 cell lipo, the velenion also ran hotter when geared high enough to be near equal to the 10.5ss when ran offroad.


    but novak says on their own motor chart that their motors can only run with 7 cells, did any body catch that.
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  25. #25
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    any ways i think i want the mamba max, yeah it is kinda a flop. but i like the way their stuff is made, wiring quality ect, better than the vxl3s, even if it worked right i would want to re-wire it and such so i might as well get the mamba max.
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  26. #26
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    Good choice Apex. I think the warranty on the Mamba Max system is one year, plus if you ever need to send it in for repairs while it's not under warranty, they charge a flat fee for esc/motor repairs. I think it's like $45-$50. That's a whole lot cheaper than buying another new BL system. I've had mine since January '08 and it's still going strong.
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  27. #27
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    yeah i'm going to get the mamba max controller and order me a 4800kv medusa afterburner v2 hehehehe. they just look sweet.
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  28. #28
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    and then i'll have a spare brushless esc and motor can't go wrong with that.
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  29. #29
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    Did you see the NEW 36-50-5900 motor? That would be faster than a 4800kV on 2s, but you can't use 3s with the 5900 because that would put the rpm's over the 60k limit. I may get that 5900 and try it on 2s. It should be faster than my 5700 AND run alot cooler. The only problem I see is the air holes in the endbell will let debris get in the can.
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  30. #30
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    yeah but it's hardly likely when running a gear cover but it's possible i want to run a 3 cell some day just for the wow factor, so the 4800 is for me. but the 36mm/50mm with the 3.17 mm shaft is the one i would need correct.
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  31. #31
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    Yep, I think so if you want to use standard pinions with a 1/8" hole.
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  32. #32
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    Okay, I have read through about 3/4 of this thread. Let me just post my 2 cents.

    I have stampede vxl with spc 7.4 8000 lipo. I also have 2 rusties, mine and my sons with Castle Creations SideWinder 4600 combos.

    When we run in the street, I am sorry that I cannot post the gearing without going into the garage, sorry, on the couch for the night, but....

    My sons rusty I think is a hair faster than my pede with the VXL and 7.4 8000. Maybe the gearing is setup better but I like the Castle Creations combos.

    I have them in 2 rcs and love them. They do run hotter than the vxl motor but that is okay, they are awesome. The tune ability of the CC is great and you do not have to buy the USB kit to do it. you can program from the remote.

    We have not ran 3 cell yet but that is why we bought the 4600 setup, they are 3 cell capable and you know the vxl is.

  33. #33
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    the mamba max comes with the usb cable. and i'll be running a 4800kv medusa so heat will def not be an issue whatsoever.
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  34. #34
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    but novak says on their own motor chart that their motors can only run with 7 cells, did any body catch that.
    Yeah, Novak is weird with their ratings sometimes. They need to clear some things up. I think that's an "old" number, because they specifically recommend running their SS series motors on 3s with the Havoc 3s ESC. Basically, they are confirming what some people have known all along...Novak motors can run well on high voltage. It was the ESC's that were holding them back...until the Havoc 3s came along (not that it couldn't still be more powerful).

    I'm impressed by your experience with the 10.5. kV ratings aside, I might not have guessed that it would hang with the VXL. I have the 8.5 with sintered rotor and it's nice and quick in my Stampede, but it just doesn't seem like the kind of motor that could outpull many newer motors. It gets a Pede to around 30-35 mph comfortably geared, which is about what the VXL does according to forum gossip and Traxxas claims. So how on earth does the 10.5 make the truck go just as fast or faster? I tell you, those higher turn Novak motors can pull some tall gearing.

    Just to clarify, I don't doubt your claims...I'm just pleasantly surprised. I need to get some better batteries to see what my 8.5 can do.
    XL-1 Pede + Novak SS brushless...old school baby!

  35. #35
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    yeah i run reedy 5000mah lipos 2 cell, i was disappointed with my vxl. but the other 6-8 guys i run with who some ran vxls and a friend of mine ran novak gtbs with the 10.5ss setup we blew their doors in with 19/86 gearing compared to the vxl with the larger stock pinion. call it strange or whatever but there definitely was 10 or so trucks involved. and the two novaks were fastest, and the most powerful on 2 cell lipo/
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  36. #36
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    Well I will say this.The way I gear my 5800 it is not as fast as the vxl motor,mine pulls right at 50,and no where near the torque.But what it does do is run very cool.I can run a 3s 5000mah to lvc and it will be under 120.Also the discretion of novaks ratings is that all their ratings are for 6 minutes.Like the ss system says 225 watts.Thats only 30 amps at 7.4 volts.I'm sure it can do better then that in burst rates.
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  37. #37
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    well heres my list so far.

    mamba max esc.
    medusa 4800 kv afterburner v2 motor/with heat sink and 3.5mm connectors.
    proline flat iron 2.2 m3 tires w/ hpi monster ss 2.2 wheels black.
    black rpm stamped front arms/ black rear slash arms. so the same offset wheel can be used.
    and a lunsford superduty turnbuckle set.

    and probably something else, getting this with my taxes. any one who says their truck is ever done is full of it. lol
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  38. #38
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    I wouldn't bother with the heatsink.These motors run very cool,and the heatsink they sell is to big for the tranny housing.
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  39. #39
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    so the mm can run a medusa? and if you wanted couldnt you even run 4s with a bec and that would be pretty fast. on second thought though, you would put the 4800 at way fast rpms so that would be bad.. just a thought
    edit:actually just looked on speed calc and its not really much faster than vxl on 3s cus there is no kv medusa between the 3300 and 4800
    Last edited by trxbeast193; 01-27-2009 at 05:48 PM.
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  40. #40
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    other than the medusa would probably be more efficient and would take advanced timing better. i can't wait. thanks for a heads up on the sink.
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