6S Lipo with Mamba Monster motor is too much!

[Moki210]

Hi

Powering a 2200KV Mamba Monster motor(essentially a 4 pole Neu) with 6S Lipo will spin over 56,000 rpm. This is far above the recommended limit of 40,000 rpm for brushless( check out RC Monster forums for more info)

This MM motor is 75mm long So that would put it very close to the power of the Neu 1521(83mm length).

I run a 14.5 lb Supermaxx, complete metal with the 1521 on 5S and I can barely keep the front wheels on the ground. Even when going past 45mph the truck will wheelie and flip over, it has unbelivable torque!
Im only spinning 29,000 rpm. BTW, the truck runs completely cool with the MGM 224/18 ESC( The truck is on sale at RC Universe)

So if im only spinning 29000 rpm on a nearly 15 lb truck, what will 56,000 rpm do to a 10-11lb truck. Not to mention the extreme heat that it would create.


I would like to hear some opinions on this issue.

regards

[HoovHartid]

check your math. 22.2V with a 2200kv motor = 48840 rpm, but thats without a load.

But anything under 60000rpm is fair game for a Neu. They are a higher quality motor that is capable of upto 60K rpm.
http://www.neumotors.com/2008/Root/S...0_series_.html

[8ight-e]

Only crap motors like the Feigao and such have 40k limits.. Neu and simlar quality motors are 60k. The sweet spot with most motors are btw 30-40 though, but Neu's are super effecient even at higher voltage and rpm so no worries if you need 6s. Most people who run w/ 6s 'everyday' tend to run the 2.5d though (just a fyi). With a Castle combo most will want to run 4s most of the time iMO, 5s for some wide open bashing, and 6s for speed runs. This is even more the case in the e-revo, as the config with the longest run times that I have found is with a pair of 2s 8k lipo's.

[mkrusedc]

Hi

I run a 14.5 lb Supermaxx, complete metal with the 1521 on 5S and I can barely keep the front wheels on the ground. Even when going past 45mph the truck will wheelie and flip over, it has unbelivable torque!
Im only spinning 29,000 rpm. BTW, the truck runs completely cool with the MGM 224/18 ESC( The truck is on sale at RC Universe)
I would like to hear some opinions on this issue.

regards

Don't you love it? Welcome to high end motors/esc. This weekend I will be trying 5s with a Neu 1515 and the MMM and a MGM.

[Moki210]

My calculations were based upon 4.2 volts per cell x 6 cellsx 2200 KV.

I wonder what the actual amp capabilities are on the MMM controller?
They dont tell you.

Also, I would avoid running any Speed control at its voltage limit because if a voltage spike hits... your controller is ruined.

My next question is, how fast do you think the Brushless E Revo will be on 4S?

Thanks

[RustlerRacer16]

Also, I would avoid running any Speed control at its voltage limit because if a voltage spike hits... your controller is ruined.

At 3.7v per cell, 6S is 22.2v and the MMM has a max of 25.2. I wouldn't think that the cells would keep that kind of voltage (25.2v at 4.2v per cell) long enough to actually damage the ESC. But I'm no expert.

[george16]

14.5 lbs supermaxx? What do you have on it? I have a full supermaxx truck but only weighs 11.7 lbs with a pair of 3S 5000mah neu batteries.

I had been running this 6S since day one. Check my sig.

[Silver_Flame]

Your calculations would be correct with a fully charged battery at no load. Once you hammer the throttle, the voltage will drop, less for a higher-quality battery, like one with Enerland cells, than a lower-quality, like Maxamps.

[HoovHartid]

I wonder what the actual amp capabilities are on the MMM controller?
They dont tell you.

Also, I would avoid running any Speed control at its voltage limit because if a voltage spike hits... your controller is ruined.

My next question is, how fast do you think the Brushless E Revo will be on 4S?

Thanks

120A constant. But it can take spikes WAY higher then that;
http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...ntrollers.html

Geared 54/24 it will go about 45mph depending on the tires...

Differential Ratio: 2.8461538461538462
Transmission Ratio: 1.8333333333333332
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 54
Pinion Tooth Count: 24
Total Voltage: 14.8
Motor KV: 2200
Tire Diameter (inches): 5.9
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0
Motor Current Draw: 110
Motor coil Ω: 0.006
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.25 : 1
Total Ratio: 11.74038 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 18.54 inches (470.8 mm)
Total Motor Speed: 31108 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 46.51 mph (74.71 km/h)
Estimated Adjusted Speed: 44 mph (70 km/h) - 6% loss
Effective KV Value: 2101.89
KT constant: 0.61 oz-in/A
Motor Torque: 0.35 ft-lbs
Final Torque: 4.13 ft-lbs
Final Power: 1628 watts (2.2 HP)

Most people who run w/ 6s 'everyday' tend to run the 2.5d though (just a fyi). With a Castle combo most will want to run 4s most of the time iMO, 5s for some wide open bashing, and 6s for speed runs.

Not me!

I run 6s geared to 45 all day in S florida .....Ambient temp 90F motor temp 115F.

[fmj40]

Ugh...
Looks like Moki has been kicked back to the FAQ by the pros to fact check his info. All I know is this, if there is a faster, cooler running setup than the Neu/mmm combo out there, I don't need it. Mine at 4s is powerful enough that I have to use Jedi mind tricks to keep it from constantly flipping back over onto itself and never going anywhere!

[HoovHartid]

Mine at 4s is powerful enough that I have to use Jedi mind tricks to keep it from constantly flipping back over onto itself and never going anywhere!

I used 100% punch control on the MMM and extended rear arms on the erevo.


I tried the Jedi mind trick.... but my Castle ESC isnt weak-minded.

It called me a "bantha-fodder" and flipped my truck on its lid.

[vokusmaxxed]

Hi

Powering a 2200KV Mamba Monster motor(essentially a 4 pole Neu) with 6S Lipo will spin over 56,000 rpm. This is far above the recommended limit of 40,000 rpm for brushless( check out RC Monster forums for more info)

This MM motor is 75mm long So that would put it very close to the power of the Neu 1521(83mm length).

I run a 14.5 lb Supermaxx, complete metal with the 1521 on 5S and I can barely keep the front wheels on the ground. Even when going past 45mph the truck will wheelie and flip over, it has unbelivable torque!
Im only spinning 29,000 rpm. BTW, the truck runs completely cool with the MGM 224/18 ESC( The truck is on sale at RC Universe)

So if im only spinning 29000 rpm on a nearly 15 lb truck, what will 56,000 rpm do to a 10-11lb truck. Not to mention the extreme heat that it would create.


I would like to hear some opinions on this issue.

regards

Neu Motors are very high quality motors and are much more efficiant then your generic Fiagos or similar...

I was talking to Steve Nue, and he said, the motors are perfectly fine at 50k rpm...

Also that RPM you are talking about is unloaded and at full voltage... Your are not going to run your car at 100% all the time....


I think the 2200KV motor would be perfect on 4s, for every day bashing and on 6s for speed passes...

[Lunchbox1019]

I tried the Jedi mind trick on my girlfriend and somehow ended up married to her. I guess the force was stronger with her.

[RustlerRacer16]

I tried the Jedi mind trick on my girlfriend and somehow ended up married to her. I guess the force was stronger with her.

Nice man.

My name is Luke and none of that will work for me.

[l_kuczy]

Ha.. My name is Luke too, and my sisters name is Leigh....REALLY (we were both born before the movies, 1976 for me & '74 for her. The first movie came out in '77.) You would think the force was strong in our family but, I haven't been able to get Traxxas to release the BL Erevo yet.

[ReV:-O]

Only crap motors like the Feigao and such have 40k limits.. Neu and simlar quality motors are 60k. The sweet spot with most motors are btw 30-40 though, but Neu's are super effecient even at higher voltage and rpm so no worries if you need 6s. Most people who run w/ 6s 'everyday' tend to run the 2.5d though (just a fyi). With a Castle combo most will want to run 4s most of the time iMO, 5s for some wide open bashing, and 6s for speed runs. This is even more the case in the e-revo, as the config with the longest run times that I have found is with a pair of 2s 8k lipo's.

apart from the fact that two 2s batteries will get you longer runtimes in an e-revo, i dont get why people always say 4s for everyday running and 6s for speed runs. are people not capable of not going full throttle on 6s? you have the whole of the throttle spectrum to play with, you dont have to be on full throttle continuously. 6s could easily be just as managable as 4s if you dont floor it 24/7.

[reltsurLXV]

apart from the fact that two 2s batteries will get you longer runtimes in an e-revo, i dont get why people always say 4s for everyday running and 6s for speed runs. are people not capable of not going full throttle on 6s? you have the whole of the throttle spectrum to play with, you dont have to be on full throttle continuously. 6s could easily be just as managable as 4s if you dont floor it 24/7.

+1, I cant agree more. I have my trucks geared for about 50mph. I like to run at my little "bash-track" that I can barely, if ever, top it out there. But when im walking over there, there is always spots to top her out.

Think Throttle Control. Just because your "geared for 50mph" like i just said doesnt mean I drive 50mph all the time, probably less than 5-10% of the time.

You never know when you might need to show off a bit!

[fmj40]

I can control the truck when its in 6s configuration.. but I guess it is a tad touchier.. and its like a guy that knows he has a drinking problem.. you don't throw 6s in the truck when you know you won't be able to keep from running it like a rocket ship... the temptation is too great, and then you hit a curb at 60 and the day of running is over as you carry your truck back in two pieces... good times

[8ight-e]

It's more about racing I suppose; #1 rules limit to 4s anyway #2 you don't want over 40mph on a track for many reasons including effeciency the motor is most effecient when wide open so if you are never WOT then you are wasting energy. Higher RPM's can be enough to reduce effeciency (2200kv motor on 6s is not optimal for RPM's but it is doable and you want max run time so you have to keep it within reason. Higher RPMs also bring more torque so you tend to spin out in corners a LOT easier than when you are in the sweet spot 30 to 40k rpm. So if your setup can be geared for 40 and stay around 30k rpm on 6s lipo then you are in GREAT shape for the race track. Bashing 50mph is perfect.. anything more is best left for speed passes iMO.

[yank24]

E-REVO Brushless. I just got my Spektrum DX3S up and running. I tried my 6s setup with the stock TX and couldn't keep enough control to even have a little fun. The DX3S has changed that. Just turn the travel down or adjust the throttle response and it is a wonderful feeling to pass a car on the side streets and then go right back into bashing or running around the yard chasing the neighbors loose dog with just the roll of a thumb.

[8ight-e]

E-REVO Brushless. I just got my Spektrum DX3S up and running. I tried my 6s setup with the stock TX and couldn't keep enough control to even have a little fun. The DX3S has changed that. Just turn the travel down or adjust the throttle response and it is a wonderful feeling to pass a car on the side streets and then go right back into bashing or running around the yard chasing the neighbors loose dog with just the roll of a thumb.

Limiting travel DOES help with control, but it does NOT help with effeciency... you're ESC is not WOT even though your trigger mabye on your xmitter. Again not a big deal for someone playing around but if you are racing league or in events you want to be tuned properly to get the most out of your mAH. Many events have A-Mains that are 30-45minutes long.. every little bit counts.

[maudaman]

Pulse Width Modulation is actually very efficient (what they use for throttle limiting). Where as running the motor at WOT could get you less efficiency due to higher current which would mean more losses in the FETs and the wiring ect.

[8ight-e]

Pulse Width Modulation is actually very efficient (what they use for throttle limiting). Where as running the motor at WOT could get you less efficiency due to higher current which would mean more losses in the FETs and the wiring ect.

"Could get you" are the key words...

If you have a properly setup system running at the right voltage so your motor is in the 'sweet spot' for RPMs you won't have any losses as you suggest at WOT. Amp draw is HIGHER if you are 'limited' at the lower RPMs by the xmitter. If you are WOT with full rpms you will have max hp anyway... there is no way around it, the system always runs hotter and less effecient when you are not able to ever get to WOT.

[mbeatle]

Good discussion here. I've got a 2200 on the way finally and I currently run some inexpensive 2s packs (worked great for brushed all these months) but all I want is max efficiency and max reliability. The speed and torque of any brushless system is going to satisfy my needs. I'd prefer a 4s setup for runtime, but if 6s will ultimately run cooler with the right gearing, I'll go that route.

[8ight-e]

Good discussion here. I've got a 2200 on the way finally and I currently run some inexpensive 2s packs (worked great for brushed all these months) but all I want is max efficiency and max reliability. The speed and torque of any brushless system is going to satisfy my needs. I'd prefer a 4s setup for runtime, but if 6s will ultimately run cooler with the right gearing, I'll go that route.

The 1y was chosen by castle for many reasons.. with 4s, 5s or 6s operation it is very effecient and RPM are safe at any of those voltages.. You wont see much heat difference going from a 4s to a 6s setup if you keep the MPH the same... if you don't gear down though and you just drop in 6s, the 6s will be faster but runtime goes down. The choice is a bunch of trade off's I guess the nice thing about a 6s setup is you can gear it down or up for some super fast speed, where w/ a 4s you're really limited to about ~45 max. The longest running setup currently is a pair of 4s 8k lipo's on the 1y (also the least expensive). If you were trying to get the same run time out of a 6s setup you would need a set of 3s 5500mAH packs anything less than that would result in less run time (impossible to find that FIT). Figuring the avg erevo is pulling around 250mah/min at 4s and 166 to 168mAh/min at 6s geared for ~40mph

**This all ballpark and based on my erevo and racing on a track the actual results can very depending on many things including early LVC's and if you push your truck as hard as I do and again all geared for 40mph

2x 3s 5000mAH packs in series would get you about 30min (166mah/min)
2x 2s 8000mAH packs in series would get you about 32min (250mah/min)
2x 3s 5300mAH packs in series would get you about 32min (166mah/min)
2x 3s 5500mAH packs in series would get you about 33min (166mah/min)

[warbunny1]

Would the "C" rating matter in this config? What is the minimum "c" rating you would run with 5000 or 8000 4S and the Monster Max Combo?

[asheck]

Castle has stated that you need a battery of at least 75 amp constant capability.So 10c 8000's just fall in that category,as they are 80 amps.A 5000 really would need to be at least 15c,for 75amps.But realistically a little headroom is nice,so IMO you need cells capable of about 100 amp,on 4s.But on 6s you can get away with a little less amps then on 4s,so the 75 would probably be ok.

[Super Dude]

I wonder what the actual amp capabilities are on the MMM controller?
They dont tell you.

I read somewhere that it was 200A continuous, I think.

[HoovHartid]

I read somewhere that it was 200A continuous, I think.

its listed here at 120A
http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...ntrollers.html

[kulone]

i thought this would be a great thread to bring back as the days are limited (maybe) for the BLE EREVO...

[Chachi_RC]

This thread does have some good info, thanks for bringing it back up kulone. Boy, I am sure glad I went with the TRC 8000mah 15c packs. Tight fit, but good run time overall, and they should supply me with ample power for a 4s setup.

[jzemaxx]

check your math. 22.2V with a 2200kv motor = 48840 rpm, but thats without a load.

But anything under 60000rpm is fair game for a Neu. They are a higher quality motor that is capable of upto 60K rpm.
http://www.neumotors.com/2008/Root/S...0_series_.html

I run my 1521 1.5D (1900KV) on 12S (50V's)a good bit. Do the math.....

I talk to Steve alot, and plain and simple, these motors are WAY underrated.

[asheck]

I run my 1521 1.5D (1900KV) on 12S (50V's)a good bit. Do the math.....

That made me

[jzemaxx]

That made me

Think that's nuts.....1527 1.5D is on 14S

[HoovHartid]

I run my 1521 1.5D (1900KV) on 12S (50V's)a good bit. Do the math.....

I talk to Steve alot, and plain and simple, these motors are WAY underrated.

wow! 95000rpms? what the heck are you running(flying) that in?

I know Patrick said that the CC neus were being tested over 100k rpms.

What 50v controller do you use?

Must be nice to chat with Steve.
Is he local for you?

[asheck]

Oh yeah,well I run my 36-60-2000 on 4s,sometimes even 5 or 6s.So what's the big deal of a 1527 on 14s, pshawww.

[jzemaxx]

wow! 95000rpms? what the heck are you running(flying) that in?

I know Patrick said that the CC neus were being tested over 100k rpms.

What 50v controller do you use?

Must be nice to chat with Steve.
Is he local for you?

HV110 and ******* 100.

No he is not local, but we talk about motors and speed records. He helped me out with the monster MT speed runs.

[HoovHartid]

Ever have a failure with a Neu motor?

[jzemaxx]

Never.....and have ran the living crap out of these motors.

[HoovHartid]

Nice.

Ok... I have a few more ?'s for you.

Do you prefer mechanical brakes or do you just use them because high voltage doesnt allow for electrical ones yet?

What is you favorite ESC?