The metamorphosis of a Hawk to an Eagle LS-II

[kdaq]

I bought and built a Hawk-II well over a decade ago (before I had a driver's license ). Today, the goal is to turn this old basher into a race-ready LS-II!


9/21/2008 Blue Eagle! - It's a franken-car. This was goal #1: invest minimal money to get it moving again. Unfortunately, the tranny went..
Amusing aside: front tires were purchased circa 1995. Rear tires purchased circa 3 weeks ago


10/3/2008 Parts Donor - Thanks to Harry697, I got a start with some LS-II parts. Some bits migrate from the once mighty Hawk.


10/3/2008 Look Ma, No Turnbuckles! - This LS-II needs quite a few parts still. I go off to scour the net.


10/8/2008 Bellcranks - Here's a shiny new steering set I got my mitts on.


10/9/2008 Battery Box Bearings - Once I got in a fancy metric RCscrewz set, I installed the battery box. Also threw in some Traxxas blue rubber ball bearings.

As of today, I'm waiting on these parts to arrive and/or install:

• MIP CVDs
• Rustler VXL tranny w/slipper
• New Servo

Then, I should have all the parts I need. Won't be long now till I can hit the road!

[kdaq]

All parts came in, so I went on a build-fest! Needs a lot of tweaking before I can hit the road, but I'm exhausted now. ...Oh yeah, and electronics need to be installed. Minor details


10/12/2008 Hello World - Viola, the truck I lusted-after as an adolescent!


10/12/2008 From behind - One of my main goals was to make this thing tough. Running MIP CVDs thru aluminum rear axle housings. Also using Rustler VXL slipper clutch, and metal gears in the transmission.

The plan is to finish up and take 'er out for the introductory spin on Monday.

Todo:

• Go brushless! Probably via a used Velineon.
• Buy new rims & some good dirt tires.
• Replace my ancient AM radio, preferably with a Spectrum.
• Find a body, and figure out the front mounting post.
• Get it dirty!!

[cooleocool]

I'm surprised that no one else has posted in this thread yet. Anyway, that looks like a nice truck! It should be a lot of fun when you get it done. Good luck on the maiden voyage.

[MOPAR MARV]

Lookin' real good! Too bad they never stay that clean .



I don't understand what you mean with the front body posts?
Also,what happened to the new rear Road Rage tires[first photo]? Stub axle issues? Different hexes?

[kdaq]

Thanks guys!

Oops - I meant rear mounting post, not front. In other people's LS-II pics, I typically see a small round white nylon mount on the rear shock tower. I couldn't find this part, unfortunately. I do have the Hawk-II style mount, which puts the body up fairly high. I guess it doesn't matter much until I decide on a body anyway. Any thoughts? I was eyeing the Jato body..

And yes, the tire swap is a stub axle length thing. The CVDs come with a short axle, thusly fitting the more narrow dish wheels that an LS-II should have anyway. My leftover Hawk-II wheels are very wide, and require longer axles. Right now, the truck is significantly wider at the front two wheels than at the back!

The current wheels are on there just so that it looks like a truck :P. Need to pick up new wheels in the narrow config soon.

[MOPAR MARV]

Thanks guys!

Oops - I meant rear mounting post, not front. In other people's LS-II pics, I typically see a small round white nylon mount on the rear shock tower. I couldn't find this part, unfortunately. I do have the Hawk-II style mount, which puts the body up fairly high. I guess it doesn't matter much until I decide on a body anyway. Any thoughts? I was eyeing the Jato body..

And yes, the tire swap is a stub axle length thing. The CVDs come with a short axle, thusly fitting the more narrow dish wheels that an LS-II should have anyway. My leftover Hawk-II wheels are very wide, and require longer axles. Right now, the truck is significantly wider at the front two wheels than at the back!

The current wheels are on there just so that it looks like a truck :P. Need to pick up new wheels in the narrow config soon.

Okay.That's kinda what I thought.

The Hawk 2 that I bought from razer has a nitro Rustler bod on it that fits real well[only has two new holes drilled for the stock rear Hawk 2 mounts]

[harry697]

Looks like the truck is coming along very nicely! Two things you may want to know about though.1.The front body mounts are assembled upside-down.If you plan to use a stadium body,it will sit very high like that.2.Not many people have had luck with the MIP cvd's,especially if you plan to run brushless.I sheared a brand new axle on my SRT during my first race with them.Aside from that,I think you're really gonna like the finished proct.I know I did !

[MOPAR MARV]

Looks like the truck is coming along very nicely! Two things you may want to know about though.1.The front body mounts are assembled upside-down.If you plan to use a stadium body,it will sit very high like that.2.Not many people have had luck with the MIP cvd's,especially if you plan to run brushless.I sheared a brand new axle on my SRT during my first race with them.Aside from that,I think you're really gonna like the finished proct.I know I did !

Front body mounts assembled upside down? Dang,That means all four of our Hawks have the same problem because they all look like kdaq's.

[kdaq]

Looks like the truck is coming along very nicely! Two things you may want to know about though.1.The front body mounts are assembled upside-down.If you plan to use a stadium body,it will sit very high like that.2.Not many people have had luck with the MIP cvd's,especially if you plan to run brushless.I sheared a brand new axle on my SRT during my first race with them.Aside from that,I think you're really gonna like the finished proct.I know I did !

OH, that explains how the LS and Hawk use the same front body mount! I'm fairly sure that it's correct for the Hawk (which uses a high body). Thanks for the heads-up.

As for the cvd's, they're worse than the stock plastic?! I had no idea. Guess I'll just try my luck with 'em, and keep a set of stock ones handy.

One problem I ran into scouring my local hobby shops, is that the front wheels are "ball-bearing" type (bearings sit in the wheels), whereas newer Rustlers and the like use hex-type wheels (like the rears). Can't say I blame Traxxas for trying to reuse its parts as much as possible, but this threw a wrench in the works, since I really wanted to run it today.

Lucky for me, I found some Jato wheels/tires that work. The downside is that they're 2.8" rims with low-profile tires (end result is similar diameter to 2.2" rims and typical higher-profile tires) - making aftermarket options apparently scarce.


10/13/2008 End Result - Here she is, ready to get dirty!

[harry697]

OH, that explains how the LS and Hawk use the same front body mount! I'm fairly sure that it's correct for the Hawk (which uses a high body). Thanks for the heads-up.

As for the cvd's, they're worse than the stock plastic?! I had no idea. Guess I'll just try my luck with 'em, and keep a set of stock ones handy.

One problem I ran into scouring my local hobby shops, is that the front wheels are "ball-bearing" type (bearings sit in the wheels), whereas newer Rustlers and the like use hex-type wheels (like the rears). Can't say I blame Traxxas for trying to reuse its parts as much as possible, but this threw a wrench in the works, since I really wanted to run it today.

Lucky for me, I found some Jato wheels/tires that work. The downside is that they're 2.8" rims with low-profile tires (end result is similar diameter to 2.2" rims and typical higher-profile tires) - making aftermarket options apparently scarce.

Yep.The Hawk,Eagle,and original Blue Eagle all had the body mounts like you currently have since they all shared the same pick-up body.Once the LS and all other stadiums trucks after that had the same mounts,but flipped over to accept the lower body.

Time will tell with the cvd's.I thought mine was just a fluke,but I've heard a few other people around here having the same problem.The older brushed trucks and nitros seem to work fine with cvd's,but that brushless system seems to eat them up.I have sinced switched back to the stock slider shafts with steel outputs and have had no issues all season.

As for the wheels,your best bet is to use the dished Traxxas wheels for the nitro sport and older nitro rustler.As long as you have the LS axles,they will be a direct bolt-on.I also had a set of 2.8 Jato wheels with Anacondas on my LS-II.The rears fit fine and the fronts just needed to have the nut a little loose for them to work right as the rims had a slightly wider hub.

Keep up the good work and let's see a vid!

[kdaq]

Yup I found that I had to loosen the front nut, but then the Jato wheels work fine. Thanks for the continued input!

Aside: I posted some action pics here.

[MOPAR MARV]

It looks great with those rims/tires! A real nice difference from the stock Hawk rims and pin spike tires.

[kdaq]

It looks great with those rims/tires! A real nice difference from the stock Hawk rims and pin spike tires.

Thanks! I'm definitely a fan myself.

One question - anyone have some tips about gluing tires? My fronts came pre-glued, but the rears are not. At the moment, they have quite the tendency to fly off when bashing around in gnarly grass

[MOPAR MARV]

Thanks! I'm definitely a fan myself.

One question - anyone have some tips about gluing tires? My fronts came pre-glued, but the rears are not. At the moment, they have quite the tendency to fly off when bashing around in gnarly grass

I'm having that same issue with my new [to me] E-maxx,every few minutes I have to stop and pop the tires back on the rim again.Its got the Blue chrome Monster Claws on it now[flaking badly] so I don't want to glue them just yet.I'm thinking of peeling all the chrome and dyeing them first or maybe new rims.

I use good old Super Glue. Make sure all surfaces are clean and dry and use it sparingly or it will be pure murder taking the tires off.I put a couple of drops every half inch or so . But with brushless power you may want to glue all the way around just for added security.


PM coming your way

[kdaq]

Hey all. Today marks another update in my LS-II saga. It only took one attempted run to figure out that I did my LRP motor in for good. Fairly sure it is indeed a bent armature. Things sounds like a banshee when it runs (poorly), and produces a fine dust of what I believe used to be magnet. D'oh!

Boy would this have been a perfect excuse to drop the $$ on a brushless system...but unfortunately, I just can't swing it right now, after the fairly large cost of building a vintage truck piecemeal.

Oh, yeah, and my ancient Futaba 2PB finally bit the dust. Thus, needing a budget way to keep 'er running, I nabbed a cheap eBay TQ radio/receiver, and a Titan 12T at my LHS. Bout $25 each, and I'm back in business!


10/19/2008 TITAN'd! - Hey, it ain't glamorous, but it has a great price to performance ratio!


10/19/2008 Ow - The recently new graphite shock tower sustained some nasty blows!

Notice that I got it dirty finally POWER SLIDING IN DIRT IS THE BEST THING EVER! In the parking lot, you have to be vigilant while turning, to avoid continuous cartwheeling. But man, in a vacant little league field, it slides through the dirt like a champ.


10/19/2008 Lacking in Titan Compatability - Can't fit a Titan without filing this down a little.

I discovered that the Titan doesn't quite fit in the LS-II motor plate. I grabbed a spare plate, and filed out a little bit, then I was in business.

The Titan feels like it's about 70% of the speed of the 12T LRP. On the flip side, it has quite a bit more torque, and much better braking. I need to play around with gearing now to try and speed it up, because the motor isn't even breaking a sweat yet.

Hoping to get some pretty dirt-flinging photography next time!

[harry697]

I'm glad you posted this when you did.I was just about to throw the xl-5/titan in my SRT for the wife to use.Maybe instead of filing the motor mount,I'll just leave the vxl in and set it on training mode.I would imagine that the Titan motor will perform pretty well in such a light truck.Now we need a vid !

[skeppley]

The truck is really coming along nicely.
I'd love to know where you found the battery box????
I could use one of those

[harry697]

The truck is really coming along nicely.
I'd love to know where you found the battery box????
I could use one of those

I think I may know where he found the battery box

[kdaq]

Hehe, yes, many thanks Harry

But, listen-up, I'll let you all in on a little secret. There is a diamond in the rough on the Internet, selling a surprising selection of new-in-package original stock LS-II parts. It's Hobbys Etc of Ohio, and they have complete battery box sets in stock! I would have had a heck of a harder time building my truck up without this place.

The thing is, I stumbled upon this find completely by accident. There is no LS-II section on the site (though there is an LS section). You have to get creative with search terms to find everything LS-II, such as the LS-II bellcrank steering set (this really saved me, as the LS one is different), or even the upper fiberglass chassis! To cap off how awesome they are, all parts are actually discounted around 20% off original retail.

[skeppley]

This is for you and Harry!!!!
I've been looking everywhere for that battery box and bellcrank set to finish off a new SRT!!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[kdaq]

*backs away slowly* You're, uh, welcome... *runaway*

Seriously though, glad to help. Didn't realize SRT and LS-II used the same steering set!


I'm fascinated by the transition from LS -> LS-II -> SRT. Speaking in terms of just trucks, you can see a lot of interchangable parts between the SRT and Rustler (with them both being released in the same time period), while the same is true of the LS and Hawk. The LS-II, however, stands apart.

I think that's why I'm so interested in the LS-II. It's like the medium between worlds. It seems that the LS-II incorporates design changes that were further refined in the SRT (zero-flex via upper fiberglass chassis addition, new bellcrank steering), while the LS-II was implemented mostly with LS-style parts (same main graphite chassis with extra holes, same shock towers, etc).


It's only fitting then, that I built my franken-truck from a combination of other people's LS-II spare parts, new old stock, and stolen bits from a Hawk-II turned LS

[skeppley]

Sorry to scare you off
Those lips arent mine by the way

Yeah, its really nice how all the parts are interchangeable between alot of the traxxas vehicles.

I recently bought a aluminum front and rear bulkhead for the SRT:
http://rcbros.com/cart/Scripts/prodV...p?idproduct=94

and


Now the front is made for a nitro rustler, and will fit an SRT perfectly,but not a hawk 2 or LSII,
HOWEVER the rear bulkhead, which is also made for a nitro rustler will fit the LSII, Hawk2 and SRT by simply using the small spacer cut off of the nitro rustler battery box that I have circled. The nitrorustler bulkhead was simply a shortened hawk2 bulkhead so it could accomodate the few millimeters of plastic under it for the battery box. The only other difference are the holes for the tie rod. but some match up to the exact ones on the electric trucks that we use. The nitro rustler has holes that go further out. The electrics go more up and down.


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJF65&P=7

Rear stock plastic bulkhead:

[harry697]

Are you sure that the Nitro bulkhead has the lip on it for the trans cases to lock into? I haven't inspected it very closely,but I don't think that the SRT trans will lock into a Nitro Rustler bulkhead

[skeppley]

Yup,
Take a close look at the tranny on the PDF:
http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitr...409nr_rear.pdf

The bulkhead is simply turned around on the nitro and the tranny sits in front of it. Swing it around backwords, and she clicks right over the SRT tranny...SWEET!!!

[skeppley]

Here ya go Harry.
I shrank these to clickable thumbs so it wouldnt clutter Kdaq's thread.
The black bulkhead is the nitro rustler. You can see how nice it fits once you cutoff that tiny piece of the battery box to fit under it.

You thinking of going Aluminum bulkheads on yours?

You may also recognize that nice G10 SRT shock tower

[harry697]

That's some good info.I am using the Nitro bulkhead on my g-10 Rustler chassis.Unfortunately,the Rustler cases don't have that locking lip,so I have to use a custom brace that screws to the two holes in the top of the bulkhead and the holes in the top of the Rustler trans cases.It turned out to be very durable,just took some thinking to get it done.I would much rather use the LS/SRT cases on my Rustler chassis,but since they are getting harder to find,I thought it would be a better idea to use the N.Rustler bulk and E.Rustler cases.

[kdaq]

Ah nice info skeppley, thanks!

[kdaq]

Well, my truck is on the fritz yet again

Not once have I managed to run out a battery on this thing yet, each run something breaks on me before I zap all 4500mAhs.

Two runs ago it was a connecting pin on the CVDs. Threadlock didn't hold on the set screw, and the pin got shot to who-knows-where. I was going to put back in the stock half-shafts, but realized that I don't have the LS-II short stub-axles to go along with my new Jato wheels. D'oh! So instead, I cut a new pin from a body clip (perfect fit!), and was back in business.

Now, this last run, I decide to go easy on the poor thing, and run it in a vacant dirt baseball field. No crazy jumps or bumps. It goes ok for about five minutes, but is slowing down the whole time. I note that the motor is really hot - moreso than the last time I bashed in grass with the same gearing. Regardless, I figure it's a dead battery, so I swap it out and let it cool down a bit.

After the battery swap, the motor never moved again. I might as well have severed the connections to the motor, it wouldn't make so much as an electronic whine. The ESC (Novak Duster Sport) is clearly getting signals from the radio, as you see the LED go to full green with throttle applied, or flashing green for brakes. I reprogrammed it, and tried both of my batteries, but no luck.

I haven't found time yet to take a voltmeter to it, but I'm guessing that the speed controller finally decided to bite the dust. Guess that's what I get for letting the poor thing collect dust for over a decade.


Next step is to repair or replace the electronics. If I find any extra Benjamins in the laundry, brushless is the obvious answer

[MOPAR MARV]

Dang,Sorry to hear about the newest problems.

Just to be sure, try hooking up your old[bent] motor,you may have fallen victim to the 12 turn Titan gremlin[which is why I was asking for gearing advice earlier].That way you will know for sure if its your speedo or the Titan that has given up the good fight.

Me,I'm betting its the Titan,there have been too many threads with folks complaining about them dieing after two or three runs.Sometimes even less.

If it is the Titan,you can always send it back to Traxxas for replacement.

But now I'm nervous,I just bought a second XL-5 esc,12 turn Titan combo on eBay last night[for my Hawk 2,we can't have the wife blowing my Hawk's doors off now can we? ]

[cooleocool]

Just be sure to break those 12T Titans in, Marv, and you should be fine. The people who have problems likely aren't breaking them in, they're over gearing them, and they're not keeping them clean.

[harry697]

If it is the Titan,you can always send it back to Traxxas for replacement.

I wouldn't even bother sending the Titan back as cheap as they are to replace.I'm on my 4th motor in my Slash.Can't blame Traxxas though,I'm pretty sure mine have all fallen victim to the mud pits .I know it's bad for the motor,but it's just so much fun that I can't help myself!

[kdaq]

Hah! Sounds like someone is getting some proper use out of their Slash


Well, that's it. I broke down and struck a deal for a used Sidewinder w/5700KV motor (in the mail now). If I'm gonna keep "investing" cashola in this thing, might as put it towards an ends rather than an interim fix.

I think the 5700, combined with the 6 cell packs I use and some conservative gearing, will yield exactly the kind of result I'm looking for. Lots of torque and a good bit of speed - but not insane speed (not looking for standing backflips here).

[MOPAR MARV]

A Sidewinder eh? Very cool indeed! I can't wait to hear how it works for ya.

Did you figure out what gave up on the brushed set up yet? I'm still betting it is the Titan.

[kdaq]

A Sidewinder eh? Very cool indeed! I can't wait to hear how it works for ya.

Did you figure out what gave up on the brushed set up yet? I'm still betting it is the Titan.

Haven't found time to troubleshoot yet, as I've been plagued by a stomach flu and busy workthings lately. Somehow, though, I found the time to spend more money (funny how that works!).

Will definitely report on how it works out. Also have a body (finally!) coming in today.

[MetalMilitia206]

Can't wait to see this thing in action! I love seeing old school trucks running. Very nice build kdaq!!

[harry697]

Haven't found time to troubleshoot yet, as I've been plagued by a stomach flu

Just take the truck and tools to the bathroom with you .You can get alot done considering how often you are in there with the stomach flu!

[kdaq]

Just take the truck and tools to the bathroom with you .You can get alot done considering how often you are in there with the stomach flu!

Hey, not funny!

....ok, now that I'm better again, yeah, I admit actually it kinda is

[kdaq]

Sidewinder came in, and is now installed. YOWZA. Terrifying test around the house is complete.

Taking it outside tomorrow - will report back on whether I had a blast, or blasted it in half

[skeppley]

I'm sure you'll be very impressed with the brushless setup.
Now you'll have to spring for some lipos too

[kdaq]

I'm sure you'll be very impressed with the brushless setup.
Now you'll have to spring for some lipos too

Hehe, yeah... Though, I actually got a higher KV rating specifically so I could stick with NiMH at a lower voltage.

Granted, I get that LiPo even at the same voltage has much better discharge performance (lower internal resistance), which would give me a good bit more punch. I'm just not sure that I want to make the investment just yet.

Also, my 4500MAh NiMHs are rated for 10C continuous, 20C burst. Not half bad!