What do i need to drift?

[aam163back&4tec]

i want my car to be a drift racer, how can i do it, i do know u need to lock up the fear wheels to bet the back to swing out, but the tec has 4 wheel drive, and i dont think ill be taking my belt off leading to the front wheel;s to do so, i dont want a rally racer, just a car that handles like a Nissan Skyline.

[sixtoes1313]

ull need to make it 2wd and be ready to replace tires every week

[Btmaxx]

Well the skyline is four wheel drive, and you can drinft in a 4 wheel if you practice enough. I have thought about this before, so let us know if you pull it off.

[waterproof]

get some used or your old tires and put them on and trie to lighted up the rear end and a bigger engine will give the power to spin the whell or just rid eit in the rain then u will drift or in a shochool jym but i=dint do the gym it is gust a joke

[Tervuren]

Also, wrap youre tires in Electrical tape, should loosen things up a bit.

[Microracer]

Originally posted by sixtoes1313
ull need to make it 2wd and be ready to replace tires every week

Incorrect.
In 1:1 cars, a 2wd is a good candidate for drifting, as well as AWD. 1/10 Scale R/C cars, on the other hand, drift better as a four wheel drive. The power to weight ratio on these cars is rediculously power oriented, so you'll just spin out with 2wd.
I believe you are trying to achieve a state of controlled oversteer instead of just donuts, and for that reason, an AWD setup is your best candidate. If you slide out to the point that the car is almost perpendicular to the apex of the corner, (parallel with the radius of the curve) you need the front wheels to "pull you out" of the slide when countersteering.

[aam163back&4tec]

Ive only had my car since november and only gt drive it about 5 times, and the tires have along way to go before they lose grip, it just sared snow MORE up in here NY so its gonna be a long while before i get to drive again, i say ill be up and running in march, but i want my car to handle like a rally car on pavement,

the best ive done is hitting full brakes while turning then accelerating again, thanks anyway though

[Tervuren]

One possible thing to do with the snow, is take a hose, cover the snow with a smooth layer of water, let it freeze, and you have a driving surface.

[aam163back&4tec]

Originally posted by Tervuren
One possible thing to do with the snow, is take a hose, cover the snow with a smooth layer of water, let it freeze, and you have a driving surface.

yea but ice is still wet and its not to safe to drive cause if ur servos and stuff get wet u could short out and you'll find ur car 100 feet away in a 6 foot snow bank, besides, nitro cars are almost impossible to start in below freezing tempatures, havent you read the thing traxxas put up about takin care of ur vehicle during winter? its not safe, and a waste of warmth

[RCfun1]

buy the 0 degree toe-in rear hub carriers and that will alow you to drift easier.

[Tervuren]

Sorry, the ice post is in the wrong thread...

[IiNEOiI]

I recently watched a video of japanese R/C drifting in which they said the best tire to use for drifting was actually a piece of PVC pipe. Ill try to dig up the video for you

[tec racer]

hey about the ice surface jus think if your car goes outta control u wont loose it, it will jus do donuts untill you go get it. lol

[AntraniK]

Just like RCfun1 said, buy the 0° rear hub carriers and see how they work. Don't put tape or anything on your tires and dont make your car RWD, this isn't necessary to drift. You have to tune your suspension so that the rear end wants to slip earlier than the front, and while this can be achieved with terrible tires in the rear and good ones in the front, there is not much adjustability in this, most probably it will oversteer too much and simply spin out. Spinning out is fun for maybe 3 seconds, otherwise it is too annoying, haha. I haven't tried to make my car drift, but I know it would involve lots, lots, and lots of practice. If you have too much steering, it will probably result in spinning out through the turn because of how sensitive you need to be, so that probably needs to be dialed out (if you can do it on your radio, do that). You should set the ride height to be "raked" meaning the front end is slightly lower than the rear. As for actual shock changes of spring rate or shock oil, I am not sure what would work in reality, it all depends on your tires and your racing surfaces, you have to just experiment. Go softer in the front and stiffer in the rear and that should make you oversteer. But first thing's first, swap to those 0° rear hub carriers, they really loosen the rear end and that is where you should start.

[aam163back&4tec]

yea thanks guys, now that i think of it u need a lot of precision to drift, in real life, game or rc, for example, in granturismo it near impossible, and in real life u nedd to pull the handbrake and turn the wheel, so i guess it will take time...

[aluminum]

k if u whant to trift the best do this find a parking lot during the winter with ice in it about 50+50 radious and that will work the best on ice

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by aam163back&4tec and in real life u nedd to pull the handbrake and turn the wheel, so i guess it will take time... [/B]

A game suggestoin if you want to practice drifting, is Grand Prix Legends by Seiria.

[aluminum]

heh if u realy whant to drift find a old driveway or parking lot that are apandoned and get a old 4-tec and pore oil or some kind of or realy good lubrication on them and u will realy drift trie it it works

[TheMajekalBum]

find some pvc that will fit on the tires...saw in in a japanies drifting video....it was crazy

[RacerXnitro]

you need metal tires that come pre mounted like off the brand new kyosho drifting cars that are comein out

[one_banger]

how come i get the feeling someone is gonna over rev and blow there engine.

to drift use this set up. zero degree hub carriers, rear sway bar on the stiffest setting, and enjoy,

that should be enough to drift, you can play with the caster adjustment, but play with that first and fine tune it first. to much oversteer is not good.

[OneBigMan647]

DO NOT do anything like pvc pipe, tape, or RWD. That'll just make you plain spin out. Just follow what the others said. But in order.

1)0-degree rear hub carriers, no toe-in in the front, and no camber all around.
2)Find some rubber tires, preferably tires that are for the opposite of your road condition(like sandy/pebbly, use slicks) and get them in the hardest compound.
3)Make your rear swaybar stiffest setting. Im not sure if it'll help to put the front swaybar on, but at least try it and experiment.
4)Put heavy shock oil like 80wt. all around, 2-hole all around, and put stiffer springs in the back and softer in the front.
5)If you going to use a body, then take the rear wing out, try getting a body with alot of front downforce(look for high, flat noses).

That should get you set. You REALLY have to improve driving skills.

[RCfun1]

check out these drifting vids of full scale(not rc):

http://rcnitro.com/rz/cars/video.asp


scroll down to japanese drifting. fullscale.

[cmetom]

Originally posted by aam163back&4tec
yea thanks guys, now that i think of it u need a lot of precision to drift, in real life, game or rc, for example, in granturismo it near impossible, and in real life u need to pull the handbrake and turn the wheel, so i guess it will take time...

i disagree... in GT3 i drift often. best are RWD cars like FD3S or AE86, but also AWD like LanEvos (CE9A, etc.)
i'm not very good at it, but some people are -VERY- good at GT3 drifting.
tuning tips: stiffen suspension (esp. rear), strong sway bar on rear, LSD 2way or full custom... also brake balance more to the front to help you.
traction and ASM off / at zero setting.

in real life (not that i'd know personally) it is not hard - hard is controlling it.
handbrake method is amature at best (on a FWD - that's front, not four - it's apparently almost neccessary though).
there are several ways to initiate a drift as well, including "Accel-Off", "Power Over" etc, etc.. google them i think..

[TimmyMcOwnsYou]

Learning to drift, fullsize, you will need only 1 thing: The Drift Bible by Keiichi Tsuchiya. And I would assume many of the same principles apply in RC or video game driving.

[Bleed]

get a PVC pipe that'll fit over the tires, and put as much camber on the front and the rear 0 degrees. this was the info i gathered on rcdrift forums, and they said that its alot easier to control an electric car rather than a nitro coz of too much power.

[nrustlerman231]

PVC will NOT make you spin out if you know how to control it. I didn't do anything at all with my set up except use 2 inch PVC pipe over my tires. It works fine if you really know how to drift.

Here's a little vid of me drifting with PVC. I was just figuring it out and now I can do drift a lot longer ways. Oh and btw when it spins out near the grass a couple times, it's from catching an edge on the brick sides.

Vid:
http://www.rcpics.net/view_single.php?medid=27286

Pic with PVC over tires:



I do warn you though, too much of this can cause the engine to blow up, but hey, its fun.

[GMCNorth]

yeah, I've never drifted, but I've seen videos of people doing it. Some people use electrical tape, but I tried and it burned through six layers of tape in half a tank of gas. The best vids that I've seen all use electrics with pvc tires. Onebigman's idea using opposite road condition tires is good, a little more grip than pvc (which handles like ice from what I've seen), but not so much that you can't drift. A little expensive though; pvc is about 4 cents per tire ($5 for 10 ft).

most people use electrics because nitros can over-rev, and because they have too much power. I saw one video on the rc pic posting site that alot of people on this forum use where the guy was pvc drifting in a VERY small area (under 20x10). He was pretty good at it. The most important thing is to rarely pull more than 1/4 or so throttle. He only even bliped it to 1/2 a couple times. Keep wheel spin down as much as possible. That sounds like it defeats the purpose, but you'll get more traction if your wheels aren't spinning 60 while your car is going 6. Remember it doesn't take full throttle to go fast in a nitro like it does in an electric.

BTW, a the nissan skyline GTR's that drift in lots of movies are about as hard to drift as an audi or something of the like. The incredible 4wd system in that car keeps it from sliding as much as today's technology allows. Even the 2wd version wouldn't be my first choice (though the trueno sprinter, the supposed king drifter, wouldn't be mine if I had a choice either).

I have tried pulling the belt off, and I can't control my 4tec AT ALL. 2wd drifting in rc doesn't work because it has WAY too much power. Even electrics would be the equivalent of drifting a lotus elise with about 800-1000 horsepower. It just doesn't work.

[GraTou]

i did what nrustlerman did when i saw his vid. i havent put them to the test yet, just havent had time. The smaller one is cut with the tire still attached, behind isnt cut, its a PVC coupling 2inches in diameter it should fit good over 26mm tires. Just spray a little bit of WD40 so it fits in good. but not on the tire, your hands will get really messy, spray in the coupling

Phil

[Samurai]

IMHO, RC cars are alot different than 1:1 for drifting. I would agree with the people that mention the new drift tires from Kyosho - They have removeable pastic rings. The PVC idea would work great. My friend drifts his electric RS4 all the time and it works very well - just like the vids. He uses metal rings glued to his tires. AWD drifts alot easier than 2WD. As far as I have heard, AWD is a necessity for drifting RC's. It seems to be REALLY REALLY bad for runtime and for your motor (electrics), but it looks fun. Judging from the Kyosho tire design, they must have alot more traction for efficient speed and control than homemade metal or PVC tires.


Tires and Rings
Rings

[GraTou]

to be "technically" correct, RWD cars drift better than AWD because, for a car to drift you have to transfer all the weight to the rear wheels, cars drift by going hard into a turn pulling their E-brake to get the back to "drift" then release it and floor the car so the tires spin and the drift is done. the old and i mean old toyota corolla's are supposedly the best cars for drifting and any nissan make also. you have to take in consideration how much weight is going to be transfered and how the cars aerodynamics are presented. i agree making nitro cars drift will or might mess up your engine because of overheating, so you really should be careful when you do it. they have these "tires" that have a certain compound of PVC that just slips onto your existing tires for drifting.

i see that the post above mine has the slip on drifters, i didnt see it when i posted

[Samurai]

OLD OLD corollas are FWD though aren't they (all Corollas, unless those old GTS's were RWD?) I haven't seen a lot of Supras drifting except for the MK4's souped up to like 800+RWHP. As far as Nissans, I know the 240 is good hopped up, maybe the 300zx, but ALL Nissans (the two I listed are the ones with RWD as far as I know besides the 350z in the states).

As far as RC's go, if you master AWD drifting, taking on the challenge of drifting with RWD would be exciting. Another poster mentioned that a RWD RC would have like 1000+ HP scaled up to real cars... I wonder if it would be possible to drift RWD with a light finger on a really good controller or in electrics, a 4-cell pack with stock motor... but it looks like RC AWD drifting is hard enough. Some of those RC Drift vids are insane. Some of those guys are just great great great drivers.

[OneBigMan647]

The 1985 Toyota Corollas are RWD.

What are you talking about "an r/c car is like a 1000hp 1:1 car." It's WAY more than that. More like 2000hp in a 400lb car.

[Rockwool]

my 4tec weight 1135g without engine. and it haves 1.4 or 2.4hp
vith 1.4 it weigths 1500g and 1800g with 2.4hp
so 1000hp in a 1000pound car 1 pound is 500g almost.

[GMCNorth]

I'm trying to figure out the actual comparison between scale sizes. I'm probably off in my thinking (aren't I always?). Check my logic and math. I know it's retarded, but so what.

stock 4tec is 3.875 lbs. It's a 1/10 scale car, which means that every linear dimension is 1/10'th the size. That means that weight, a 3 dimensional measurement, is 10^3, or 1000 times the 4tec's weight. that's 3875 lbs, a heavyweight car (100 or so lbs less than my parent's old van). That makes a little sense considering the engine is about the equivalent of a 400+ horse big block muscle V8 in size, and there's alot more bottom structure on this than there would be to scale. Also, every part would be 10 times thicker in every way. Besides, 4tecs are equivalent to muscle cars in that they aren't ultra lightweight and rely on massive power (for a .15 at least) for fun and racing legitimacy. And it's 17 in long, so it'd be 20.4 feet as a real car (huge).

I'm not sure about power though. Theoretically, the only way to calculate the estimated power is through some really complicated chemistry and physics. You'd have to find the power of atomized nitro combustion with a certain oxygen percentage and then use physics of momentum, velocity, pressure, time, etc. to figure out the force on the piston face. I obviously can't do that.

Instead, I'm going to say this: There's 1000 time the fuel, 1000 times the oxygen, and 1000 times the displacement. Also 1000 times the friction, and 1000 times the momentum due to 1000 times the mass. I don't think it would work out as 1000 times the power because these factors.

So, because I can't really estimate that, lets just multiply the power by 1000. Yes, this does give us the same power to weight ratio as the original 3.875 lb car. Yes, this makes everything I just said useless in the answer I'm going to give you. Oh well, I don't mind typing.

Powerful .12's get about 1.5 horses, and the relationship of power to displacement is about the same in all other sizes. Knowing that the TRX is about the best in .15's, lets say 1.7 horses. Thats 1700 horsepower in 3875 lbs. About equivalent to a vette with 1400 horses. Still not as high as I expect.

Yes, I know it's off subject, but I feel like giving myself a headache. Post any ideas.

BTW, RWD drifting in rc is worthless considering how well 4wd's drift with proper tires.

[Samurai]

It gives me a headache too... a nitro 4-tec does 60+ MPH and has about 1.3 hp. Scale that up 1:1 and it's a 13 hp car going 600 miles and hour. Freaky... I know it doesn't work like that, but it's funny.

I would love to see a Lingenfelter Vette do 600 mph though, heheh.

It takes in the nighborhood of 2000 hp to do a 6 second 1/4@220 mph... and that would be like a totally modded muscle car like a chevy smallblock with TURBOS, definitely not street legal.

These RC cars are insane.

[GMCNorth]

yeah, hahaha.

your right about the 600 miles per hour thing though. that is the true scale speed because it's a linear dimension.

I doubt it's 1.3 horse though. I saw that somewhere online too, but that also said 50,000 rpm, and the trx gets 36 or 38, as it says in the book. I know plenty of .12's that get 1.3. I know the trx is designed not to peak out so that it's better for racing (even power range instead of a small band that you rocket through). But still, I'm sure it has at least 1.5 horses (reall amazing either way considering a few grams worth can perform more work than a horse).

Anyway, F1 cars are on the order of 700-900 horsepower on 1100 lbs. Thats a much better power-to-weight than the RC's, and although they do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds, they still don't do scale speeds of 600 mph. They are also more aerodynamic, especially considering 4tecs do 60 without a body anyway.

Yeah, Fomula dragsters use straight nitromethane and get 4500-5000 horsepower out of a V8 I think. They also do quarters in 4.5 seconds at 320 mph. Still half of these scale speeds. WHY!?!? I don't get it!!!! This annoys me!!!!

Yeah, there must be some form of loophole with the 1000x engine displacement AND 1000x fuel. It's either double or 10x the power or some really wierd number we could never logically conclude to without EXTENSIVE math, chemisty, and physics.

BTW, I know about the 850 hp lingenfelter corvette (I actually got to sit in one), but I can't ever find anything online about it specifically. All I get is lingenfelter's 500hp jobs (not that bad, but doesn't do 0-60 in 1.9 secs either).

[nrustlerman231]

Ya your right technically, a 13hp engine making a car go 600mph. It's becuase these engines have no torque, but they have hp. Why do you think my 4tec has an engine with more horsepower than my freinds go-ped and his go-ped can carry him and still go around 25mph.

It's all about torque to hp. If that 13hp engine had a TON of torque it could go 600mph. Whatever.

Tell me what this has to do with drifting with RC cars?

[Rockwool]

the little thing ve forget is the air. it is a exponiel function. double the speed and you need pi times more power (pi is 3.14........)

[GMCNorth]

I see what you mean about pi being in there somewhere, but I don't think it's that- pi is a constant either way, so it would multiply independently.

There are multiple reasons why a big gas engine is relatively less powerful than nitro. Torque really isn't a factor; it all depends on how you gear it. If you took a nitro engine and geared it low so that it would only go 25 mph, it would push a person around fine. Just like F1 engines, nitro engines in nitro cars are just geared differently.

Yeah, horsepower isn't everything like idiots say when they have a ricer car that has 300 horse and 10 lbs of torque, but all you have to do is gear it properly. Horsepower is the American way of measuring the amount of work it can do. 1 horsepower=33,000ft*lbs/min, meaning that it can exert any combination of pressure that multiplies to 33,000. In other words, it can lift an object that weighs 1 lb 33,000 ft in one minute or 33,000 lbs 1 ft in one minute. There are many other combinations such as 3300 lbs 10 ft in one minute, etc. So all you have to do is gear the engine to go the right speed, and torque doesn't matter. (Yes, the nitro engine is VERY low on torque; you can easily stop the engine by putting your thumb on the flywheel, and I promise it doesn't hurt if you just hit it, I've tried it)

There are three reasons why a tiny nitro engine has so much more power than a big clunky gasoline engine, especially than those in a car. The first is the sheer perfection in the TRX as compared to most engines. Every part of the TRX is honed to perfection and the design is flawless. Even the metal and cut standards are high above a big gas engine.

The second is the fuel. 20% nitromethane. Think about it. Nitro, as in nitroglycerine as in you shake it and it explodes like crazy. Methane as in the chemical in flatulence gas that causes farts to burn. 18% lubrication, which is just fine lubrication (much better than 2 cycle oil). But the rest, as I found out, is straight methanol alcohol (don't drink fuel thinking you get drunk, ethanol is for drinking- Ethanol is Edible, Methanol is Murder- Methanol is HIGHLY TOXIC, nevermind the other 43% of the fuel). Now, all INDY racing engines use is methanol. Methanol is less power per gallon than most gasoline (less btu's), but it burns much faster and allows you to burn more fuel in the same amount of time. So basically, that 75cc's of fuel in a 4tec's tank is more powerful than the quart of gasoline you put in a scooter tank. Besides, the more refined lubricants in nitro fuel burn more than oil in a 2 cycle engine, giving more power to nitro engines. Thats why those big Zenoa gasoline engines get no more power than a good .18 or .21 engine despite being about 20 times the displacement.

And 4 cycle engines can't compare; 2 cycle engines get 1 combustion for every rotation of the engine. And although 4 stroke engines make up for this a little by getting higher compression and better intake and exhaust, they still only get 1 combustion for every 2 rotations of the engine.

The last reason (somewhat tied to the first two) is because of how lightweight the engine's internal parts are and the power of the nitro fuel is, the RPM's are massive. redline in a normal car is about 4-5000 rpm (yeah, I know the actual redline is usually 6, but the things always feel like they're gonna shake apart at that point). Higher speed road cars get to about 8-9000 rpm. Nitros do between 30 and 42,000 rpm. F1 engines have about the same displacement as the engine in my mom's van, but it gets 7-900 horsepower because it redlines at 18,500 rpms. Keep in mind though, that lower RPM engines generally have lower horsepower but higher torque. The reason muscle cars are fast is because of this balance of torque and hp. The only reason why this is good is because the precision required from other parts (clutch, tranny, etc.) is MUCH greater in a high rpm situation, so you can just make heavy duty, low presision parts that can take the torque and make it work well.

Go to www.howstuffworks.com for all this information and PLENTY more. It's a great site.

Oh, and, this relates to drifting because when I ate my grilled cheese sandwich on monday, I thought about how rediculusly hot Sarah Thompson is.

For those who aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, there is no relation to the original subject.

Oh, and, yeah, I'm bored