Looking for Castle System reccomendations

[Dknuckles]

So I bought 3 rollers for my kids and my son has saved up some extra cash and was interested in getting a castle system if he had enough. Are there any reccomendations for this monster. He won't be using anything over 3s.

[pavmentsurfer]

I would suggest the MMP/2400 SCT combo. The motor will require a BIT of modification to get it to fit... but for $189 less a discount from tower youll get a combo that will be able to handle 3S with tall gearing and it will stay very cool. This is what Im thinking about switching my MMP/2650 combo to.

[Dknuckles]

Thanks Pave. Thats a pretty good deal and stays cool. Looks like he needs to save a bit more.

[P'noRcer]

yeah pave is right, i have it in my 4x4 with 3s and a 17 tooth pin, its pretty efficient and doesn't go over 110, and thats running it pretty hard to! I'm glad i got this over the mmm/2650! and you can also go up to 5s maybe even 6s if you watch the temps really carefully!

[asheck]

I don't know, for a kid IMO the smaller 3800 would be just fine. At half the price and still capable of running 3s, geared conservatively, I think for anyone not looking for 60mph + would do just fine with it. Worse case scenario would be a later upgrade to a MMP, meaning you have a Sidewinder to run in one of your other vehicles.

[pablokillla18]

get the new mamba sc sidewinder i hear that the esc is 4s capable cost like 90 oh it comes with motor too

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/sidewinder_sct.html

[asheck]

i hear that the esc is 4s capable That's the system I was talking about, I should have been more specific.
It is possible to make the Sidewinder a much more capable esc. By adding caps , a bec and a fan you would probably be adding 30% performance increase. 3s would then be quite capable, and I would call 4s a possibity case by case. By doing these mods to a MM 4s was possible, and they could handle an E-maxx/ E-revo.

[Dknuckles]

Thanks for all your input guys. I'll post back what he decides to go with. I'm looking forward to seeing how he handles his new pede 4x4 with one of these systems.

[Jones8352]

That's the system I was talking about, I should have been more specific.
It is possible to make the Sidewinder a much more capable esc. By adding caps , a bec and a fan you would probably be adding 30% performance increase. 3s would then be quite capable, and I would call 4s a possibity case by case. By doing these mods to a MM 4s was possible, and they could handle an E-maxx/ E-revo.

I put one of those sidewinder 3800 setups in my Rustler last week and on 3s the esc lasted about 15mins. It's at Castle being repaired. I then hooked it up to a mmp and it's one of the best motors I have. I have a cc 1800, 2200, 2650 and I have more fun with the 3800. That little sucker has an amazing amount of power and the temps are super low. But that's in a 2wd. As much as I like the 3800 I think the 2400 would be a better choice for a 4x4.

[asheck]

3s the esc lasted about 15mins.What kind of speed were you geared for? How heavy is your Rustler?

I think the key here is that this is for a kid, on a budget, Not a hardcore driver.

[P'noRcer]

What kind of speed were you geared for? How heavy is your Rustler?

I think the key here is that this is for a kid, on a budget, Not a hardcore driver.

yeah but the mmp/2400 is pretty good and down the road it could easily be upgraded as he(his kids) get better and it wont cost alot more then the sidewinder!! The reason I'm not for the sidewinder is cause i had no luck with them(caught on fire with the 5700kv and 2s in my rustler), I'm not saying its not good or good for a beginner its just when they get tired of it they have to get a better Esc! most people don't know how to add caps or mod the Esc, and well, they just want plug & play! Oh and for the 3800kv i haven't had the chance to get my hands on it yet but i bet its a MONSTER! I've ran all of CC4600-5700-7700 and their all great motors, so i bet that this new line of four pole motors are going to be a force to be reckoned with!!

Asheck, is it hard to add caps to an Esc or can you do like the Novak system and just add the cap with the wires?

[asheck]

Asheck, is it hard to add caps to an Esc or can you do like the Novak system and just add the cap with the wires? It's very easy, just solder them on. The Novak type caps will work fine, as well an any high temp low esr type cap. You normally want a 30% ceiling for the voltage. So atleast a 16volt to use with 3s. These work well http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=35vcap&cat=21 Or the Novak version http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/Power+Trans-Cap+Module+-+3S+Li-Po/part_number=5686/135.0.1.1.19780.33113.0.0.0?pp=10&
The BEC will make a bigger difference http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=castlebec
Not in stock, but cheaper http://www.hobbypartz.com/nesw2li55aub.html
Installs as easy as soldering 2 wires to your input, then plugging it into your receiver, and unplugging the red wire to your RX from the esc.


The reason I'm not for the sidewinder is cause i had no luck with them(caught on fire with the 5700kv and 2s in my rustler), Supposedly the newer SCT Sidewinders have been upgrded ( from Castle )
The all new Sidewinder SCT controller offers a 40% increase in power handling over the previous Sidewinder 1/10 but keeps the same great Sidewinder affordability.

I guess where my problem lies with the 2400 system is that I just can not be convinced, that everyone needs, or will be happiest with a Monster Truck setup in a 4lb Pede. To put it in perspective, the 10+ pound Savage Flux, uses the same MMP esc, yet uses a smaller motor then the 2400.

If Castle had a 1406 4-pole motor of a lower KV value, that would work good with the Stampede gearing, IMO it would be all that was needed in this.

[Jones8352]

What kind of speed were you geared for? How heavy is your Rustler?

I think the key here is that this is for a kid, on a budget, Not a hardcore driver.

It was geared 15x54 and it's slightly heavier than a stock Rustler. It was 38 degrees outside and I wasn't running it hard I got on a couple of timesbut didn't go real fast. Within about 7 min the esc shut down. I checked the motor and it was only 82 degrees. I let it sit for about a min and it took off and about 2 mins later it shut down and this time I could smell something burnt. I went into the house and checked the esc was 184 degrees. It had about 3 or 4 mins to cool so it had been close to 200. That's pretty wierd for running that short of time in cold weather. Since then I'm now running the 3800 on a mmp and it's perfect.

This should be a fine setup for anybody. But I don't think I should have to mod a esc to keep it from burning up running in cold weather for less than 15 mins.

[asheck]

I agree, I would have thought your setup would be fine. Perhaps it was a dud esc from the beginning. I think that will happen more frequently with the Sidewinder, then a MMP. Patrick, from Castle , has said that they did everything they could to make a robust , cheap esc for this combo, but the Motor makes up alot of the price.
Heck, maybe the way to go is buy both combo's. Sell the Sidewinder esc, looks like they go for around 50 on the bay, and sell the 2400kv motor, I would bet it would pull over 100. For 130-140 you could have all the motor or esc one of these should need.

[Jones8352]

I agree 100%, wanna buy a sidewinder when I get it back? LOL I ran 3 3s packs through the mmp 3800 today and I'm in love with it. That little motor pulls almost as hard as my 2650 on 3s, just amazing. I'm going to do some real comparison testing when the weather warms enough to get some real traction. Doesn't sound fair 2650 vs 3800, it'll be closer than most would think in a light weight rc.

[pablokillla18]

remember with more power means more broken parts especially stub axles sct system on 2s is more than enough in my opinion

[asheck]

That little motor pulls almost as hard as my 2650 on 3s, just amazing.Until you hit the limit of the 3800, which I'm not sure you can in this, I would expect very close performance. A slight torque advantage to the 2650, but the usable torque of either, should be to much .

Is there any way you would want to pull your motor's apart? I would love a pic of the 3800, 2650, and the 2200 rotors all together. Since the 2200 and the 2400 uses the same rotor, we can see where it lies. The 3800 and 2650 should be closer then the 2650 and the 2200. Just be sure if you do to keep something between the rotors. Get them close and they'll jump right out of your hand.

I have decided that this is the motor I'm gonna run. I'll buy the combo, and probably mod the Sidewinder with a BEC, and caps, and see just what it's capable of, geared up on 3s, and try 4s. Then I'll throw a better esc in , and see what kind of performace difference there is.

[Jones8352]

I didn't get to run the sidewinder long enough to really know the performance, but the motor feels feels like it's a little stronger with the mmp. Does that make any sense? When you get your sidewinder modded I'd sure like to see what you have done. You mentioned 4s, it says on the motor it has like a 100,000 rpm limit. 3s only gets it to like 44k or close to that. I'm thinking for a few speed runs 4s might be ok. That would be wild for sure. I'm having a hard time getting up to full throttle on 3s running on pavement. I haven't tried it yet but I made a spoiler of sorts in an effort to keep the front tires on the ground. Keeps blowing over at speed. I tried it geared 21x50 with 4.75" tires on 3s and it was really rolling. I broke the pin on the input shaft yesterday, that's shaft #9.

[asheck]

feels like it's a little stronger with the mmp. Does that make any sense? Yes it does. In the long ago, I had a modified Quark 80b, and knew exactly what speeds it was running in my E-revo. While experimenting, I put a MM in there, and I lost 4mph, and couldn't figure out why. Long story short, Between my Quark, a MM, and a MMM, there was a 4mph difference in top speed, With all other things being the same, batteries, gearings, tires, ect. The MM was 4mph slower and the MMM 2mph, so it actually took an increase of gearing to see the same performance. But once geared for the same speed, the motor got no hotter then before, even though it was geared higher.


You mentioned 4s, it says on the motor it has like a 100,000 rpm limit.Why yes, yes it does. I had already seen that, and it had my mind wandering. Because 6s still wouldn't hit it's limit. But in my Slash 4x4 ( ST modified, so no big body) I tried running 4s with my HV 4.5 motor, and had no luck. Around 55mph the power was just to much and the tires would start spinning. I can't imagine what it would take for a Pede to even put 4s down to the ground. But I'll try, because I have to :)

I think for day to day driving, I will be geared for around 45mph, Either on 3s or 2s. I'll just have to see.

[Jones8352]

I tried my 2650 in my pede on 4s, I zip tied an old Venom 7 cell to the front bumper. All I accomplished by doing that was flipping at a much higher speed. LOL I had it geared 28x50 with 2 35c 5000mah 2s.

[rag6]

had it geared 28x50 with 2 35c 5000mah 2s.
Did you have to mod anything to make those gears fit, and can you fit bigger pinions? I want to know if my castle 1800 will push that gearing on 2s. I have tried 18t on 2s and its too slow. Fine for 3s tho.

[Jones8352]

Did you have to mod anything to make those gears fit, and can you fit bigger pinions? I want to know if my castle 1800 will push that gearing on 2s. I have tried 18t on 2s and its too slow. Fine for 3s tho.

I have used the 28x50 in my Slash 4x4 and it will fit but you need to make the slot on the motor mount longer. I have a 1800 and I generally gear it from 23 to 25 x 50 but on 3 or 4s and it's plenty fast. Those motors need voltage, you not going to get great performance using 2s imo. Try using two 2s packs in series and you'll get plenty of speed out of the 1800.

[pavmentsurfer]

For a kid... get something easy. This is a kid... he doesnt want to worry about soldering caps and BECs etc... he just wants to plug and play. Sure, the 2400/MMP system is more money but its simple and will be capable of growing with him. Not to mention he wont have to ever worry about heat.

[asheck]

For a kid... get something easy. This is a kid... he doesnt want to worry about soldering caps and BECs etc... he just wants to plug and play. Well then Castle's won't work then, if you can't solder, how are you supposed to get the connector on there? Neither system is plug and play. The caps and a bec would only have to added once you are pushing the system, it's not like it's a " have to " from the start.


Not to mention he wont have to ever worry about heat.But worth mentioning is the added amps it will draw, the added torque to break parts, the added weight, and the probability that the 2400kv motor is complete over kill and the power will never be used. Really the 2400kv motor is a E-revo motor, it's made for extreme setups, not for every person looking for something better then a VXL.

[P'noRcer]

well i did some runs with the 4x4 on 4s 5000mah 35c venom, and my 2400/mmp geared at 25/54 on 1/8 buggy foams, and boy it was fast, I have to do some more mods, I keep breaking my front T-maxx shaft off every high speed run!! its going to be a monster!! one problem I'm having is the battery is way to heavy for the set-up, i have it set-up for the 3s, but it handles great till i put the big Beast in there!! lol, When I launch it-it pulls real hard to the left then when i let off it shoots right so i have to get back on it to straiten it back up!! I Just wanted every one to know how its been going with this combo, and I'm still loving these cool temps in this HOT weather!! good luck with what ever combo you get for'em!!
Oh and One good thing about the heavy battery it keeps the truck from flipping at high speeds!!

[Jones8352]

P'noRcer you said you're breaking T-maxx front shafts, that's strange. I've been using the T-maxx Shafts in my Slash 4x4 running the mmm 2650 combo since last summer and I'm still on the same set of shafts. I have them hooked to T-maxx dif output shafts so they fit the dif side perfect. I didn't use the T-maxx stub axles, I just slightly modded the stock Slash stubs to fit on the maxx joints. I did that so I wouldn't have to buy different bearing and not have to drill out my wheels. I've run it on 4s a bunch of times, no twisting or beaking any thing. Putting the maxx dif outputs makes a huge difference on how they work. They eliminate the shaft wobbling, they run perfectly true like the would on a T-maxx.

[asheck]

running the mmm 2650 combo Not saying it's the only variable, but the 2400 is more motor then the 2650. I would expect torque effected parts to break more frequently, especially set up for speed runs, where torque can be greatly increased, if your batteries are capable.

[P'noRcer]

P'noRcer you said you're breaking T-maxx front shafts, that's strange. I've been using the T-maxx Shafts in my Slash 4x4 running the mmm 2650 combo since last summer and I'm still on the same set of shafts. I have them hooked to T-maxx dif output shafts so they fit the dif side perfect. I didn't use the T-maxx stub axles, I just slightly modded the stock Slash stubs to fit on the maxx joints. I did that so I wouldn't have to buy different bearing and not have to drill out my wheels. I've run it on 4s a bunch of times, no twisting or breaking any thing. Putting the maxx dif outputs makes a huge difference on how they work. They eliminate the shaft wobbling, they run perfectly true like the would on a T-maxx.

Well when i put them in i used all t-maxx shafts stub axles and diff outputs so i think its just the power at speed!! it happend when i was going about 40ish and hit the throttle, it would break all four tires loose and then grab and pop it at the diff yoke! if that makes sence! I also think it was diffing out and pulling real hard on the right side! i think i'm going to up the fluid and see if the helps!




Not saying it's the only variable, but the 2400 is more motor then the 2650. I would expect torque effected parts to break more frequently, especially set up for speed runs, where torque can be greatly increased, if your batteries are capable.
+1 ^^ i think that's all that's happening and i'll have to make the necessary mods to fix the problem

[Jones8352]

I've had my cc 2200 in my Slash 4x4 on 6s and never broken my maxx shafts. Maybe I'm just lucky. I don't know I've put a lot of power to them. I hope your luck gets better, replacing parts all the time isn't any fun plus the expense.

[Dknuckles]

I'm only going to let my son run 2s for now. he can run 3s on my slash 4x4. I'm not looking to upgrade thier trucks that much yet. But you never know. It's great watching them fly through the air though.

[Geodude85]

If you're only going to run 2S, I suggest you buy the Sidewinder SC system.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Castle-Creations-1-10-Sidewinder-SC-System-3800kV-NEW-/150527745276?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230c271cfc

$95 shipped.

[P'noRcer]

I've had my cc 2200 in my Slash 4x4 on 6s and never broken my maxx shafts. Maybe I'm just lucky. I don't know I've put a lot of power to them. I hope your luck gets better, replacing parts all the time isn't any fun plus the expense.

i've been putting this set of shafts though the ringer and their holding up so i think it might of been just a bad bunch! it was the small shaft that went inside the other that keeps breaking in half!!

[Dknuckles]

If you're only going to run 2S, I suggest you buy the Sidewinder SC system.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Castle-Creations-1-10-Sidewinder-SC-System-3800kV-NEW-/150527745276?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230c271cfc

$95 shipped.Thanks for the link!

[Dknuckles]

I've never soldered, but know for this hobby I and at home I need to learn. And I want to learn. I go through Towers site for most of my LHS purchases so what would I need to buy to improve the Sidewinder esc so we have no temp issues unlike the Velineon. The whole bec and cap mods are new to me.
Right now I'm debating if I should just pick up the Sidewinder 3800 or the MMP 2400 for a bit more. My LHS is looking to cut me a break on the MMp 2400 if I buy 3. She said she would let me know on mon. But we are not looking to run 3s for the kids since that means even more upgrades and cash being dumped into thier pedes and not my trucks lol.

[Dknuckles]

I'll be ordering the Sct Sidewinder 3800 combo. I'll add the bec's and caps as I learn more about them. I'll save the extra coin and purchase a different motor combo for myself where I can run up 6s and let the kids rip with that from time to time!

[asheck]

Soldering is almost mandatory. The TRX connectors make it a little less so, but still not all batteries come with TRX connectors. My biggest piece of advice would be get a good size iron, at least 40 watts , I actually use a 230 watt gun. A helping hand type setup, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKY67&P=M and use good electronic solder. Then always pre-tin.

Well, we all know how I feel, Sounds like a good choice. :) I'll do a little tutorial on adding the cap and BEC, with pictures, once I get mine. I'm also going to be testing it with, and without to find it's limits. But for 2s, I'm expecting it to be fine.

[asheck]

I'm starting to do some running of the 3800 system, you can check out my build thread for the specific results . But my initial impression is good for 2s. 35mph and no problems so far.

[Dknuckles]

Just checked in with my LHS about the Castle SCt 3800 combos I ordered. Not happy. I ordered these on a spring saver special with them knowing that they may not be in until March 10. Now I find out Tower has them on backorder till early April. I'm not canceling the order through the lhs. I'll wait.

[asheck]

I'll tell you this system surpassed all my expectations. It may only take consevative (55mph) gearing on 3s, but that is all that most anyone will ever need.

[Dknuckles]

I'll tell you this system surpassed all my expectations. It may only take consevative (55mph) gearing on 3s, but that is all that most anyone will ever need.

I'm anxious along with the kids to pick these combos up. It was your thread that I kept followin. So thanks for all the info you shared with everyone!

[muck]

ok, i am confused. CS says the SW SCT is only 2s. Are you all changing esc to run the 3s?
I just picked up a roller pede and was going to pull my suspension and such off my PE for it, then i saw a few differences i am not sure i want to take the time to change... kind of thinking selling the PE now and getting a different BL system.
Was looking at EZRun combos and also the MMP 2400 and SCT combo..

[thedreadedend]

I'll tell you this system surpassed all my expectations. It may only take consevative (55mph) gearing on 3s, but that is all that most anyone will ever need.

Conservative gearing on 3c shouldn't smoke it if your checking temps till you know your gonna be alright.

[asheck]

So , Castle does allow 3s, on this esc, they list 3s as fine with the 4600, and 5700. However this 3800 can pull alot of amps real quick, so they don't list it as running 3s with that motor. As long as you gear conservative, and watch temps, it does fine. I have a thread going with datalogging, speeds and temps on it.

Edit, ha, ha maybe I should type faster :)

[muck]

So , Castle does allow 3s, on this esc, they list 3s as fine with the 4600, and 5700. However this 3800 can pull alot of amps real quick, so they don't list it as running 3s with that motor. As long as you gear conservative, and watch temps, it does fine. I have a thread going with datalogging, speeds and temps on it.

Edit, ha, ha maybe I should type faster :)

let me ask this, would this system be better than the vxl on 2s? I looked at your data log but not sure i completely understand it all..

[asheck]

I have not ran a VXL in this, but have alot of experience with the VXL system. So it will be based on opinion, but yes, I think the 3800 is probably good for around 20-30% more then the VXL on 2s. I have no problems running 40mph on 2s, with no heat issues. But worth noting is that I relocated my esc to the front of my chassis, to give better air flow since my body is slammed, dropped esc temps by around 20*